***REVISED DUE TO SUGGESTIONS*** CtF on this server seems to not take much skill to obtain/capture a flag both from the offensive and defensive sides. I love doing CtFs but here it seems like all you need are red potions and to be decked out in your best gear. It creates a lot of inequalities that could overpower one side rather easily. I have some suggestions that would make the playing field equal and would make it more of a team-oriented game rather than a TR pot chugging fest to get the flag: 1. Put timer on Refresh potions - Instead of being able to chug TR and walk through people, put a 10 second timer on them. 2. Allow the flag to drop where the carrier dies - I don't mean drop on the person's body, but the flag now appears on the ground and is clickable by anybody whether it's the same team member or an opposing faction. If the team member of the flag that drops double clicks it, then it goes go back into the base where it came from. This change would make it so mid-run it could change destination making it a more dynamic game. People wouldn't just sit at your flag base and wait for it to come back all the time. 3. Allow all field spells to be castable - Having all the field spells to be cast-able layers your defenses more and requires the opposing team(s) more teamwork to work their way to the flag and back out. Poison fields, fire fields, and energy fields could be great defenses to the different classes. 4. Allow teleport - If you were to implement all fields, you would need teleport to be usable as well. You could either run through some fields or teleport over them. It would be something to watch for to interrupt if they were about to teleport while running with the flag. 5. Equalize the loadout - Either make it so you get re-equipped with new GM gear when you enter, or make the current gear upgrade or downgrade to GM quality so that everyone is on equal grounds when it comes to damage and armor. 6. Put a "zig-zag" in the arena - That's a great defense-holding spot and would make offense work harder to get into/out of the flag room. Otherwise it's just a straight up run to the flag making it super easy-mode for flaggers to get in and out. 6.6 Two teams for Large Cross Arena - By this I mean depending on the amount of players joining, it should be split to either 2 teams or 4. Last time I was in the Large-Cross arena the teams were very small and spread everybody too thin - 2 teams would make this better. 7. Reward the winning team, not individuals - Rewarding those who either kill the most, heal the most, flag the most, etc... isn't a good strategy in a team-oriented game. Reward the entire team that wins, not the individuals from differing teams. This makes it so the TEAM works together for the end-goal. Standing by their roles and performing their duties as expected to get the prize. Some examples of prizes would be: 2-5 yards of a rare cloth (ranging from semi-rare to the white cloth varying in amounts as to not saturate the market, but give some value to the reward); platinum (as in the trophies already given out); gold (checks); and whatever else that doesn't take away from rare stuff too much or anything. 8. (late late edit) Allow Hiding/Invis - Not for flag carriers, but for anybody else. This would allow stealthers to participate as well and it would let people set traps in the flag room. These suggestions come from a CtF I played constantly years and years ago which were the best matches ever. People had to get a flagging team together, defense teams, walling teams, and all that. It was great and made for extremely exciting games. Of course the scores were a bit lower, but it was a LOT of fun. People actually had a purpose and I'm basing this all on team work. Like I said multiple times it's a team-centric game and needs to be carried out as such. Thanks for the input so far!
I would say, if red pots go. meditation should go too. it would be unfair on dexers otherwise who cant fight if they have no stam. All field spells should be must though...for proper attack vs defense
This isn't a 1v1 tournament. Most dexxers don't even live to see no-stam. You can't compare the two as I see it. You can still swing, with meditation gone you can't cast after a couple spells. Most of the time warriors will be the aggressors to mages who aren't sticking around to fight anyway. Your stam won't be something that will be lacking and this is coming from a warrior.
Take away reds and macers rule the day. The good thing about outfitting everyone as they enter, is you can put 3 reds on them and thats it.
That's agood solution, just make it so they can't be picked up, like the newbie gold so you can't trade them.
1: No way would I, or many other people, play CTF with no red potions. People aren't 'scooting right by' groups of other people because of red potions. They are scooting by because that group is uncoordinated or don't understand how to prioritize their targeting (ie: kill the flag carrier). Any two or three eval mages could sync drop any flag carrier before they get off screen with the flag. A couple of dexxers with vanq weapons (cheap) and some purple potions can Wall of Stone the doorways and crimp the target on its way out the door. Lack of skill or application of tactics is no reason to blame red potions for failure. 2: Absolutely agree, flag should drop where the carrier dies, but auto-return if not returned by a teammate or picked up again by an enemy, within say 15s. 3: Pretty much on board with all field spells working but on the other hand, Wall of Stone is already abused by people who are only in CTF to grief the players there by walling them into their own bases or blocking them out when they have flags. There's no way to stop these players from doing so, so I'd say ultimately ditch Wall of Stone but definitely let Fire Field and Poison Field in. That would add flavor without the potential for game interference by people who are only playing this game to be assholes. 4: Sure, if all fields are added, definitely allow Teleport. 5: LOL, boring. Not really worth the coding time I wouldn't think. The best would be, when random teams are implemented, to have that variant make every item you use GM quality. ie: If you bring a vanq sword, it will be considered a GM crafted sword in full repair, by the system. (this is not uncommon on other shards) I think league style games with ability to choose teammates, is where the best teamwork and most challenging matches will happen. 6: The map/team count is set before sign-ups open and can't change after, they way it is setup now. I don't know what you mean about a maze. You can look at UOAM and see all the map areas in the game, some of which have been used for CTF. All flag locations in all maps have choke points that can be walled. I'm not sure what you mean by straight up run to the flag. That's what you're supposed to do. 7: I don't want a bunch of junk for playing CTF. If there are rewards, I feel that a single platinum coin for every participant who does SOMETHING that match (heals, kills, captures, not just idling) and MAYBE a 2p trophy for top scorers on either team, would be reasonable. I never needed these rewards as they exist now in the first place. I play CTF because it's fun, not because I need things. The incentive to coordinate with your team and stay on task for your given or chosen role, is the win. If you're not working with your team to do it, you're very unlikely to. 8: Yea, I can't wait to come loaded with EQ and Chain Lightning scrolls so we can literally destroy multiple targets in a few simple casts knowing that EQ won't be damaging our teammates. /end sarcasm. No thanks. 9: Agreed on stealth/hiding when you don't have the flag. This is absolutely a team game and that's why you see the most coordinated and practiced teams winning more often. I assure you, if you got half a dozen folks who know how to work as a team, you'd be able to snatch wins from the guys who do it the most now. The best matches we have are when there's at least one other team that isn't just standing around like they don't know/care how to play CTF.
No way would I, or many other people, play CTF with no red potions. People aren't 'scooting right by' groups of other people because of red potions. They are scooting by because that group is uncoordinated or don't understand how to prioritize their targeting (ie: kill the flag carrier). Any two or three eval mages could sync drop any flag carrier before they get off screen with the flag. A couple of dexxers with vanq weapons (cheap) and some purple potions can Wall of Stone the doorways and crimp the target on its way out the door. Lack of skill or application of tactics is no reason to blame red potions for failure. Maybe you're right. I agree to some extent, but still being able to chug unlimited refresh potions kinda sucks. Like xXx said, maybe put 3 or 5 of the reds on everyone that can't be traded, and replenish them after every death. 3: Pretty much on board with all field spells working but on the other hand, Wall of Stone is already abused by people who are only in CTF to grief the players there by walling them into their own bases or blocking them out when they have flags. There's no way to stop these players from doing so, so I'd say ultimately ditch Wall of Stone but definitely let Fire Field and Poison Field in. That would add flavor without the potential for game interference by people who are only playing this game to be assholes. Wall of Stone would need to be kept in, it's the main blocking component and would make the red potion fiasco even more prevalent. Then you could REALLY chug your way out of it. 5: LOL, boring. Not really worth the coding time I wouldn't think. The best would be, when random teams are implemented, to have that variant make every item you use GM quality. ie: If you bring a vanq sword, it will be considered a GM crafted sword in full repair, by the system. (this is not uncommon on other shards) I think league style games with ability to choose teammates, is where the best teamwork and most challenging matches will happen. Converting damage and armor to GM equivalent for the match would be a great alternative. 6: The map/team count is set before sign-ups open and can't change after, they way it is setup now. I don't know what you mean about a maze. You can look at UOAM and see all the map areas in the game, some of which have been used for CTF. All flag locations in all maps have choke points that can be walled. I'm not sure what you mean by straight up run to the flag. That's what you're supposed to do. That's the maze I'm talking about. Has been in every server I have played in for that large cross arena. It's a nice place for defense and for offensive teams to work together. Please don't say it would make it too hard or anything, because that would be a farce. 7: I don't want a bunch of junk for playing CTF. If there are rewards, I feel that a single platinum coin for every participant who does SOMETHING that match (heals, kills, captures, not just idling) and MAYBE a 2p trophy for top scorers on either team, would be reasonable. I never needed these rewards as they exist now in the first place. I play CTF because it's fun, not because I need things. The incentive to coordinate with your team and stay on task for your given or chosen role, is the win. If you're not working with your team to do it, you're very unlikely to. Most of the playerbase likes rewards and notoriety from the events. There could be an AFK timer implemented, I've seen it - that would solve the "idle" timers. Also, if people don't have X amount of damage or healing or something, then that could be considered for getting no reward from the event also. 8: Yea, I can't wait to come loaded with EQ and Chain Lightning scrolls so we can literally destroy multiple targets in a few simple casts knowing that EQ won't be damaging our teammates. /end sarcasm. No thanks. This is why I said the equalized loadout - since with that there is no EQ scrolls and such to be brought in, and you should have them hurt everybody, not just the enemy team. Not sure why you think they wouldn't. Even the field spells should.
Just no on limited refresh potions. 3-5 per death? Sure maybe if you die every minute. At the very WORST, a cooldown on Refresh is all I would support. Why can't killing be the main blocking component? Why can't the people playing the match focus on what matters, which is getting flags and killing whoever has theirs. I know the benefits of WoS but I don't see it as necessary. I think it's something that suits laziness or templates that have no purpose in a combative arena. That maze doesn't exist here, thus I had no fuckin clue what you meant. I kind of like those walls in the hallway but they really only suit to make mages lives more difficult because of the Line of Sight breaks. The reason I think EQ wouldn't damage teammates is because it doesn't. You can't hurt your teammates in CTF with offensive spells, weapons or purple potions, on this shard. It's meant to be team versus team and if idiots could plant alts on enemy teams and EQ them in their own base, the game would be stupid as shit. That's really my only qualm with team damage is team killing. If you've played enough Hardcore mode on Call of Duty, you'd know what I'm talking about. Some people play ONLY to fuck their team over. If that's not an option, you're not likely to see people fucking games up because they love to be fucking assholes.
Just no on limited refresh potions. 3-5 per death? Sure maybe if you die every minute. At the very WORST, a cooldown on Refresh is all I would support. A cooldown would definitely be a better idea than limited potions. Why can't killing be the main blocking component? Why can't the people playing the match focus on what matters, which is getting flags and killing whoever has theirs. I know the benefits of WoS but I don't see it as necessary. I think it's something that suits laziness or templates that have no purpose in a combative arena. As it stands it seems teams are spread a little thin, thus the "killing as a blocking component" is pretty hard to do. People can't focus 100% on what matters because everybody isn't you nor I. People play for the fun, like you, and their fun is probably not as hardcore as you or I. That maze doesn't exist here, thus I had no fuckin clue what you meant. I kind of like those walls in the hallway but they really only suit to make mages lives more difficult because of the Line of Sight breaks. They suit to make defense a little stronger than just a straight run to the flag. Typical capture the flag has some obstacles you need to overcome in order to get it. As it is now there are only 2 pinch points on that map specifically that with a single dispel field is a moot point, same for the entrance. The reason I think EQ wouldn't damage teammates is because it doesn't. You can't hurt your teammates in CTF with offensive spells, weapons or purple potions, on this shard. It's meant to be team versus team and if idiots could plant alts on enemy teams and EQ them in their own base, the game would be stupid as shit. That's really my only qualm with team damage is team killing. If you've played enough Hardcore mode on Call of Duty, you'd know what I'm talking about. Some people play ONLY to fuck their team over. If that's not an option, you're not likely to see people fucking games up because they love to be fucking assholes. Alright then, not being able to do that is fine I suppose. It's not a big deal I guess if it's not in there. You seem very angry, btw. But I greatly appreciate your input on this so far!
Edit: You're right Blaise, you never said people as blockers - but on the flip side it's hard, especially for dexxers, to kill people while they are on the run.
I'm just hyperactive and passionate, please don't take it as anger. Also, I'm from NY originally so I have a free pass to inject fbombs and attitude into every fucking thing I do. There are technically three choke points per team in the Large Cross. Doorway to flag room, doorway at hallway turn, doorway to central room. I was in that CTF and I never said you could use people as blockers. You can spam refresh so a cooldown would help a lot but I would prefer to see people focusing on the targets instead of spamming WoS.
But Wall of Stone is an integral part of blocking incoming and outgoing people. That map is kinda hard to do since it has so many openings, but most of my focus is making it so people have it a little harder to succeed which would require more teamwork - that's my main point of all this and I think the changes would make that a reality.
If there were a cooldown on refresh, there wouldn't even really be a need for WoS. You could do some really effective body blocking but not by parking a character on a spot. You'd have to move forward with your mark to peg them in.
This is a very very old video of a place long gone, but check the video out - it's a CtF involving 2 guilds in this specific video, but you can see the difference and teamwork needed in order to cap. They even had trapped pouches, no potions, nothing like that. Watch the video after too, more dexxers and stuff involved.
That video does nothing for me. To me it seems like it makes the game very slow and annoying just casting fields, tele and dispelling all game. To me it seems like nobody ever dies, and a dexxers would become useless. I like #'s 2(dropping flag where u die), 7(rewarding team) and 8(hide/stealth). I like the inclusion of hide/stealth the most. For defensive purposes it would be fun and interesting. Also if somone took the time to stealth to the flag more power to you, it would take forever, just no stealth/hide while holding the flag.
Thanks for responding! From experience I can say it wasn't just a game of fielding/tele/dispels. With more people comes much more chaos. Those were 2 well-organized strictly CtF teams. If you can picture 10 or more people added per team it would be a lot more chaos from both ends. I can only speak from my experience there saying it was a ton of fun, but I guess that's relative to each individual. Glad you like the 3 options you listed!
Bump, please take a look at this Telamon - or if you could - broadcast it for people to look at before/after a CtF
Make monsters spawn for each team on their side and then walk down the "lane" and go to the other side.
