Restrict Powder of Fortification to Clothing Only.

It's a lot more complicated than that. CTF is designed in small rooms on foot which is better for dexers who need to remain close, which walls and corners help them do. Mages regenerate mana very slowly and this is an opportunity for a template with higher sustained damage to actually showcase it's higher dps. In real open world situations burst dps templates will always be better because they will end a fight before sustained would have a chance to do any work. The mana bar is the main reason dexers can get higher kills over time in CTF.

I don't see any reason to call valorite weapons 'proper balance.' It would make more sense to me if lower end weapons were brought to a usable range like they were on OSI servers and precious weapons remained precious.

But short of most weapons 2-shotting I doubt that pure melee'r templates will ever see equal representation to mages or tank mages in real pvp. Higher damage over time is not as effective as burst dps when your target is a short life-bar with quick heals.

tldr: you can't fix this with pof changes or free runics

The reason why it sucks doing the bod thing now is the fact that you can't even sell runic hammers for a fraction of what they used to go for. This is directly a biproduct of Trammel events that save you from losing them. Soon valorite runics won't even cost a mil because the market will be that saturated, even despite the fact that it takes a TON of time and effort to aquire that hammer. If it was "use it or let it sit in the bank forever" people would be more inclined to risk them I think.

No one said free runics, even though you can literally get any runic sub-gold for free if you asked me and most other smiths.

1157 dye used to be 3m at one point....it's sub 1 now. Valorite runic weapons won't see healthy field life, until they're valued around 100k a pop, like a good vanq was on 'other shards'.

I'm not even saying valorites would make dexxers pwnface in the field. I'm just saying it would make them more viable and you would definitely see more people out there if they weren't risking 1m+ to be "at peak capability", like every mage template can for under 20k.

I'm already to the point where losing aggies and verites is whatever, but that's how I should feel about valorites. It's just stupid hard to come by right now so no one's doing that unless it's a player event (the one you looted).

I think I agree that the valorite weps should be equiv to about 150-250k, unable to be blessed through factions, and about equal to slayer weps in frequency and use.

All faction blessed runics become unblessed in three weeks from the moment they are crafted, by a faction crafter, in a town their faction controls that has a blacksmith shop, with the requisite silver, runic hammer and ingots on hand (translated: modicum of risk for brief reward). There's also failure rate in crafting.

What I feel you're really looking for here is a covert buff for dexers in the form of more plentiful runics.
I feel this is a bad situation any way you look at it, but there are two particular contexts in which it is bad that deserve a closer look.

The first is that it won't even help dexers like you intend it to, because tank mages will use these runics even more effectively than a dexer can. As mes said earlier, fights out in the world revolve around burst damage and tank mages do burst damage much better than dexers. Hit + spell is much more effective than hit + maybe hit, and easily available valorite runics would be a huge boon to tank mages because it tips them that much closer to the point where a good weapon hit leads into an instant kill.
The second is that is widens the gap between the wealthy and the poor. 100k runics is great for people like you, who have a seemingly inexhaustible amount of wealth, but newer players and people who don't want to farm or do whatever it is you do to have all that money will be unable to risk 100k every time they leave the house, especially when they die as much as you do. I'm in favor of a low barrier of entry for pvp, and all runics at the 100k price tag would do is ensure that the rich are more effective in pvp than the poor.

The truth that most dexers are unable or unwilling to come to terms with is that dex play during this era is fairly shallow - you point and click. That's hard to balance because the activity is so simple. Either it works, and they die in two hits, or it doesn't, and they feel lethargic. Because there's really no skill involved, it's hard to create a system where the good dexers thrive and the bad dexers don't and that's because point and click is such a simple thing that there's no difference between the good and bad dexers.
Despite this, I do think that in small scale fights a single dexer can make a difference, particularly if he's good at purple pots. Dexers have one thing mages don't, and that's no need for mana. Sandro's dexer was as good as any mage, but he had good weapons and mastery over purple pots. Many of the people you see constantly whining for dexer buffs are the people who think they should be able to point, click, and win - but like I said a moment ago, that's impossible to balance because of how shallow it is.

blah blah no, shit tanks will use them too. snore.

I'm not whining for any dexxer buffs here, I'm simply calling it how it is. Valorite Runic Weaponry is the balance to medding mages in 31AR suits, that is plain and simple. This impacts every template that wields weapons or will be hit by them, tank mages included (zomg, not just a dexxer buff, just like that fucking bandage timer). There are no two-hit kills, versus armored opponents, unless you're combining purples and wands effectively, like any template should be for maximum combat effectiveness. Even then it will be very very rare, if it happens at all here. I guess I'm just not seeing the amazing depth in the "skill" involved in hitting your last target key at the same time as your friend on the mic. Call me shallow, but this is all point and click...oh, except for the requisite spell, target and potion keys on any competent template.

What I feel you're really saying is that you think that the only potential threat a warrior can bring (a max damage weapon) shouldn't be common because it would throw off the global balance of 2, 1 derp.


What I find ultimately hilarious is how you will, in one thread, jump to your conclusions that I'm in it for the money. Then you turn around and say I'm in it for the dexxers to be all powerful. It's like I'm talking to children where I have to repeat myself over and over again that I'm looking for balanced game play. It's pretty fucking obvious that GM valorite should be as common as vanquishing was when mages wore no armor. This is just silly to argue against the balancing factors of. Not only that, but they all exist here and have been tooled over by Chris and others countless times. Yes, GM valorite should absolutely be common, or barbed leathers should cost 100k per suit (ie: be extremely rare)

I don't know what kind of defense you think you're making. You are entirely begging the question Blaise. 'Valorite weapons should be common because they simply should be.'

Why?

You talk about OSI like you experienced it. Valorite weapons were extremely rare on OSI. The hammers only had 10 charges and you couldn't flip bods by turning them in like you could here.

There are more possibilities than the one you have presented.

I don't personally consider this to be a problem because gold and agapite weapons are common enough to see regular field use and do plenty of damage. Power and vanq weapons have always been common on this server as well.

But, let's put aside trying to prove that obtainable weapon damage is too low for a moment. Let's just assume that's the case for the sake of your argument.

Why is the only answer to make valorite weapons common?

Why not adjust baseline weapons until they feel appropriate, so that GM weapons do the kind of damage people expected on OSI? Then valorite weapons could remain a rare item. And the role of the blacksmith perhaps would return in a way you keep talking about.

Right, I've always argued that if you want to buff dexers (in blaise language that means "balance") you should buff the GM weapons. That way the poor can enjoy the same buffs that the rich bastards are trying to get for themselves.

Because buffing them only makes the existence of runics even more pointless than it is already? Get real. On OSI, was everyone a 7x mage in 31AR barbed around this time? Gonna go out on a limb and guess things have changed quite a bit. Everyone's max everything yet the max weaponry is so rare that it's not getting used in the field. There's barely any actual dexxers in the field and yet you think there's no correlation?

Making shit items better, doesn't make the best items get used in the field. There's nothing you can do to normal GM weapons to make them better than the runics that are already common (gold, agapite) and thus, very inexpensive.

I understand you guys want to keep a good thing down and it's not really a shocker. I've explained "Why" and that is because practically everyone has a minimum of 31 AR and a simple vanquishing weapon is not fairly balanced with that fact. Valorite weaponry is, or you wouldn't be arguing against it. I'm not begging any questions when I'm wondering why peak armor is commonplace whereas peak weaponry is not. That's a pretty blatant, straightforward imbalance that is the point I've made now countless times, despite the point of conversation changing from PoF excesses to weapon availability.

31 isn't peak armor

not really interested in watching you type things like blatant, straightforward, and imbalance over and over

try to make a case more logically and less loudly please

the game isn't and shouldn't be balanced around the most high end items being standard equipment. Let's keep it that way.

Also, when valorite weapons are that cheap (and it will happen at the current trend) people won't be doing bods anymore because it won't be worth it. We're talking about something that can easily take up to a year of hard work (depending on luck) being worth a measly 2.5mil @ 100k per charge. That's ludicrous, runics are incredibly cheap as it is and people still don't buy them. I've had an agapite hammer on my vendor for 400k and it has sat there for weeks now. Runics need to either become finite or we need new bod rewards.

Then wear some sub-standard equipment. 31 AR is peak for top craftable leather meddable AR. Valorite runic is top for craftable weaponry. They should be equally difficult or easy to come by, unless of course we're going to drop runic sewing kits to craft leather armor that's greater AR than Invuln, to retilt the tables back in mage's cheap ass restock favor.

400k is overcharging for agapite and yes, absolutely valorite will come down in price. The BoD system will always require runic hammers because they are part and parcel of this era, to suit the AR values that are commonplace. So sorry Mes, but when I repeat myself with clear information that actually means things and you play ignorant, saying it loudly seems to be the only option remaining. There is no counter point you have made in any regard that negates the imbalance between cheap/worthless 31 AR meddable leathers and currently affordable weaponry, by the general population. Valorites exist and people have them. There is literally no option to balancing that out, other than allowing production to continue and even more, making them more common.
By all means though, I'd be happy to see all runic weaponry nixed from the shard, along with a block for meditation when wearing ANY armor.


People will ALWAYS be doing bods because there's always someone that prefers to work for their items rather than purchase them. Always.

Buffing the best items only helps the people with the best items, rich people like you. I'm in favor of a lower bar to entry for pvp, I certainly don't want the only people who are enjoying good weapons to be the rich.
It's easy to see why you're in favor of this, not only are you extremely rich, but you've already had your valorite hammer and made millions off of it. Now that you're done with that, you want valorite runics to be cheaper but still to be expensive enough to be prohibitively expensive for the poor. 100k is nothing to you, but it's a whole lot to a new player.

I think if your circumstances were different you might not be so in favor of something like this.
I also don't even remember what this has to do with the original topic - making powder of fort not work on runics would drive prices up, not down.

I wear plenty of sub-standard equipment. I'm not typically a tryhard about these things. What does this have to do with what I'm wearing?

Where did you get it in your head that somehow valorite weapons must be made as common as barbed leather armor because they are both highest end craftables?

Which isn't even true. I'm guessing valorite platemail and a valorite shield is a higher armor value.

Why is this the place you decided to dig your heels in? Was the highest armor on OSI during this era balanced with valorite weapons in mind? No, it was balanced around normal, GM equipment. High end runics were rare and did high damage and were costly.

If we had spined, horned, and barbed runic kits then I'd guess they would provide armor values that would compensate for runic smithing damage.

I doubt there is even a single person that agree with this topic.

What do you think that says about your newest position?

Why? What sense does that make? Why would leather armors block meditation? They never have in this era. Why would runic weapons be removed? You sound ridiculous. You just want to have your way, and noone can understand why it has to be this way except you. You can't articulate your position so you just act like a shit and repeat yourself and say things like this.

Oh, we can't have free valorite runics for everyone? Delete all runic weapons and make all armor non-meddable. Obviously. That's the obvious response.

For starters, no one ever said buff the best items. I said make them more prevalent, as they should be, so the elitist can just stay elite with things that are intangible, like clothes and masks.
When will you get it through your thick skull that I'm not into this for money? I want these things to be common so your average player doesn't have to scrounge up a lifetime to buy one only to lose it a day later to a bunch of ganking bitches. I don't sell runic weaponry and still wouldn't, even if I had a valorite hammer for every bronze hammer I have. I don't do bods for money, I do bods for items, for me and my friends to use.
You have humped this idea that I'm into money, countless times. It's embarrassing how often you cite that as your assumed reason for my interests. Perhaps stick to tracking who plays what characters. You're remotely good at that.
For what it's worth, I'm two smalls from my second valorite hammer and none of the charges will be sold, at all. I'll probably give some to friends but business is not my business, unless I'm purging or have some other need for money (typically I don't).


Yes, making PoF only work on clothes would drive prices up and the requisite change that would make that sensible is making the weaponry more commonplace so your average player could not only afford them, but afford to lose them as well.

Mes, you're flat out lying, again. Just like saying the first valorite you looted never got used, when you know it did. You know for a fucking fact you don't wear shit leathers in the field. Namely because they hardly exist because most leathers don't even get to take damage. They are looted off of 21derp victims and as such, never even saw metal contact. No, you don't wear horned or barbed suits either, outside of VoP (even then probably not). As for AR values of metal armors, that's not the point here, but those are shit too.

The consideration for barbed suits in comparison to valorite runics is that it is the build model the shard has decided on. Why on earth the best weapons were configured to be ridiculously difficult to obtain is actually the problem. If they exist at all unblessed they should be common enough to be afforded by many players, not just a few. That's the point I'm making and if you're too daft to understand that, I couldn't care less. The reason the comparison is made for mages in armor and valorites, versus naked mages and vanquishing is that they are both representative of their respective eras.

On OSI in the second age, everyone wasn't rocking vanquishing weapons. On UOSA, everyone was rocking vanquishing weapons....because free shards are a fuck ton different than OSI in terms of accessibility to items and their prevalence. On UOR, everyone's rocking armor on mages and yet....everyone's still rocking vanquishing because beyond that is prohibitively expensive for your average player. So it's not OSI, and even with valorite, LJs aren't pulling two hit kills on anyone with a suit on, like they did on OSI. The damage output and armor has been tuned here to suit the items available and valorite weaponry over a million gold per, is imbalanced. Sorry it's taking a day and a half to explain that perfectly clear information to you.

I guess it's just a coincidence that you want prices lower now that you're done selling and wish to just be a consumer, huh? Pretty convenient.

100k was the price point you gave. That's to expensive for most players, but not so expensive that the rich would be unable to float that.
I mean, just think for a moment. Why would a person be against buffs for GM weapons but in favor of the highest end runics being at that price point? Right now valorite runics are prohibitively expensive for the field, you'd like them to be prohibitively expensive for everyone but you and your friends.

more accessible vanqs + higher AR values = balance
People were wearing shitty armor and using shitty weapons on OSI, people use nice armor and nice weapons here. I don't see a problem. I don't understand why you don't understand this perfectly clear information.

16k per charge is overpriced? By that standard it isn't even worth selling a runic hammer that isn't valorite, which is just plain stupid. If we have reached that point then everyone should be out pvping with at least aggy weapons, and running with Verite shouldn't be that big a deal either

As far as I know, Pikka put the valorite large battle axe we looted off El Horno into his bank box and never took it out again. I have suggested to him that he try CTF with it or sell it and he has always declined. When is it you think that someone used that weapon, and why are you still talking about it?

Oh, I know, because you're no longer trying to support your position, nor respond to my own. You are now trying to discredit my person instead of my argument.

Napo and I fill chests with armor and we put it on and don't consider it's armor value. Some of my characters wear cosmetic hats instead of leather armor as well. I have one wearing a beat up invuln suit and a wizard hat. Is that a proper enough response?

Why do you think that? Has a staff member stated this? Or is this just what you want it to be?

Good weapons make it certainly a lot easier to win fights, especially on tankmages.

My favourites are bronze runics, since im sitting on a lot of bronze hammers to make tons of them.
They are an execclent pay off in both damage and price, but i dont mind to field with agapites either.
Dependant on the situation, group, or enemies i roll with different weapons.

Ive never seen a problem in winning fights with bronze runics however.
Bronze Sword and Macing weapons certainly hit hard enaugh, and i even managed to 3shot Pax in a duel on my fencer mage with a bronze spear, ofc i needed a ton of RNG luck though.

The 2nd best option is agapite in my opinion. Since the prices on agapites dropped a lot they are EXCELLENT weapons to use, if you have some funds for a hammer.
Both the damage and Price are very good, you will be able to rock 1v1s and they arent too expensive to loose for established players.

Going higher than agapite doesnt pays off though, unless you have a free Verite hammer accessable (the +5 tactics arent good for anything tbh, i would pvp with them all the time if id had a hammer) and Valorites... well, i do own 1 which is useable for RP purposes.. the price of 1.5mil which ive payed for it makes me certainly dont want to field with it. The +13 damage bonus is incredibly OP however, and yes, you can 2-shot someone easy with that.