What a waste of time

cry baby...change everything to make it the way you want it because you got your shit pushed in. I have no desire to get in to the IDOC game because I dont have the time to devote to it. If I did I wouldn't be on here bitching and complaining and threatening to leave the server etc because I lost my first IDOC. I would learn to beat them at their own game or join another IDOC group. You don't really want to play fel, you thought you wanted to play fel until this happened.

Think about this...If you spent the time learning to use the timer and band a group of up and coming new IDOCers together and begin PVP training together in the events etc that you spent on here bitching you'd already be that much better. Anyway I wont be back to call you a cry baby again... I got shit to kill and PK's to fight with when they show up....Chances are I wont survive...But then again...Maybe I will kill them... Good luck on OSI trammel servers.

Like everyone is saying, there is nothing they are doing that cannot be duplicated (especially using my guide SHAMELESS PLUG). If you aren't doing well at IDOCing, it means either you have a shit team or you're a shit leader. Get good. Seriously. You think when we first started we were any good? Most of us (pre Bart era) were O^S PVE'ers. It took a lot of damn work to get the systems down, learn how to fight together, draft rules - some actual blood, sweat, and tears. If you expect to just wander on to the scene tra la la and take heads and pixels you're high.

Not asking to "change everything". I've only ever played on this server and Baja Felluca in the 90s so...

It's also pretty difficult to get a group of people who are willing to IDOC, especially during working hours.

Oh look, another excuse on why you can't win. You're a product of "everyone gets a trophy". You poor little thing... can someone get this guy an IDOC participation trophy?

Isn't attention what you really want?

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Bullshit. Who "waits patiently all day" doing anything in a game and not once opens a web browser to find information on the activity they're participating in as a new player?

Before this "waste of time" thread, this would have been the results from a simple query. Now it's polluted with your drama thread. Congratulations.



Come on man... come on. You didn't get bored and mess about the internet searching for IDOC info once... not once? I think you knew beforehand.

Yeah, right.

Your objective is clear. I thought everyone would have spotted that right away.

Yes, yes indeed this thread sure is.


Getting a lot of PM's asking "what my problem is" regarding this subject. I'll reply all here.

1. Don't worry about it

I'm leaving by the end of this month for good and if anything I gained from this thread, it has inspired the way I'm going to do it.
Everything's getting stuffed in a house and set to IDOC.

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No I don't. I don't care for people that want the game changed because they can't compete. That to me says a lot about ones character. If this guy wants to leave over this I won't be one trying to talk him out of it. If he wants to be a cry baby about getting beat fine but don't expect me to sit back and not say a word. That's how UO got ruined in the first place. Cry babies who couldn't compete instantly and didn't want to put in the hours of earning and learning kept bitching and threatening to leave. Along came tram/fel.

I am reasonable most of the time but someone is being a whiner I call it like I see it and I won't hold any punches. Bottom line is he came on here and instead of being polite and starting a discussion threat about the IDOC mechanics and timers he started a "I lost and want to complain" thread.

Also what makes you think the current IDOCers love the automated mechanics here? Maybe they hate them just as much but instead of letting it hold them back they adapted and learned to use them to their advantage?

@One no offense to you but I won't be back to keep this going. This thread is a waste of time. I wish everyone the best...even the pk's that piss me off nearly every time I farm and even the OP.

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This. Erza can chuckle all he wants, but I ran the bot for the final month of my time IDOCing and running the bot is horrible. It burn't me out and ultimately made the decision to stop idocing very easy. It was no longer fun. Before the bot we all pitched in and did greatly checks hourly. After the bot, everyone became reliant on it. You would wake up and find the bot had been killed by a snake or another player or runes blocked or restock glitched and your sitting somewhere with no regs. Then you have 12 hour windows on idocs. To avoid this I would have to be checking on the bot constantly to make sure it was running correctly, literally waking up in the middle of the night just to make sure you don't let the group down. Your UO play time went from playing UO to staring at razor and sorting through screenshots to update the spreadsheet. Plus that account is just done for, forget doing other stuff with your other characters because the machine cannot be stopped.
This is similar to same names in factions. I never liked it but when the entire enemy faction uses same names you gotta adapt.
I can only speak for myself, the automated part of idocing is not fun and I would welcome change.
That said, what makes this tricky is, if anything, the automated part is what most allows anyone to compete and get a timer. Without a large group, 24/7 hourly manual greatly checks are impossible. The ability to ID the sign afk lets random solo players get timers easier.

vpn

machine # 2

Ya, that would solve the problem about being able to use your main accounts but the enjoying your playing time issue would still remain.

Wrong. You cannot emulate the act of "clicking" with Razor. Yes you can macro Item ID on the sign, but not "clicking", there's a difference there.

Wrong. You get information. Information is not tangible unless you can act on it. And you know what the best part is? You can do it too!! Here is everything you need to know about how to AFK IDOC successfully!! Good luck, and don't let anyone stop you! You can be filthy rich with 0 effort too!!

Fine, I was over-sensitive, the thread can stay. I just think this discussion is starting to get out of hand. Same thing over and over again everytime someone is killed at an IDOC.

What is "balance"? They HAVE to be there to collect the loot from the IDOC, just like you, me or the original poster. Again, the mechanics are "balanced". Anyone can go out there and get timers. ANYONE. The difference is: are you willing to go the extra mile to reap the benefits? These people are! Good for them! They should be rewarded for being able to have the whole map covered, AND run 6-8 deep at every IDOC. I have run large guilds before. It is a CHALLENGE to get people THAT organized.

Would it be balanced for them if you could go into an IDOC and loot equally after they devoted a heck of a lot more time/resources than you? Or is it just "unbalanced" when you're not filthy rich?

The system they run can be run automated or not. It will make very little difference to them because you only need one player to run, what, 2 runebooks(?) every hour? half hour? I used to be in THE rares group in UOSA, and 3 players ran 3-4 runebooks every 30 mins checking for rares like clockwork. How many GW houses are there in the map at any given time? And even so, they cover the map so much, I bet they can pretty much narrow down the GW's that are close to IDOC to a runebook. Two tops. This is child's play. The level of "spreading out" is highly overestimated.

Agree, and that is why I never atttacked the OP, or anyone else. I just defend a mechanic that I believe provides no material gain. Mostly because people DO NOT understand how to make it work. They see the tip of the iceberg and "think" they got the bottom figured out, when they really have no idea because they haven't done it.

For further arguments for/against IDOC changes, please refer to this thread which has a ton already.

I think the messages above this one are contradictory. And they simply have no point, except attacking the OP or anybody that wants changes.

You guys want to defend unattended bot usage or not?
Is it gameplay that is good for UO:R or not?
Is it era accurate?
What is the effect of the unattended bots for the IDOC groups and the Shard in general?


You object the OP and call him whiny and say everybody can play like the IDERPs, but never clearly say your position to the unattended gaming. "Yes, I favor unattended gaming and running of bots because..." or "No, bots shouldnt run like this, because...".
Truth is, the IDOC groups switched to it and it's their main way of getting the IDOC timer. Prior to that, according to El Horno, it was done manually, thus less effective and more time consuming. So yeah, people had to actually PLAY this game in order to get the timers on an hourly time schedule.

I think we are safe to say that the mechanics here also not era-accurate at all. We have Razor for automated screenshots and looped macros, we have three clients, we have blessed RBs (important for the recall bots), we have blue tamers with GM-skilled two dragons and one mare, we have reds that have no statloss and can kill anybody however they like to during IDOCs.

The reason why it is done unattended is clear too: The bots boosts the gold per hour ratio of IDOC groups. They play less, do less repetitive work, invest less time for each IDOC and thus earn more wealth per invested time unit. We heard from previous tales and previous discussions, that the income can be huge. And nobody will deny that the dominant IDOCers are easily the most wealthy people of this shard right now.

So is running bots "perfected gameplay"? I don't know why that would be the case. It's non-interactive bots that recall all over the place, and do the dirty work. People know that if they want to be able to compete, they would need to copy that style. This forces other players into a gamestyle that they don't want but more important aren't used to play for IDOCing. The mechanics that are in place here aren't the UO mechanics from 1999, it's custom mechanics like I mentioned above. This is also the reason, why people should be able to discuss and demand improvements/changes. This stuff isn't fixed. We don't NEED to allow unattended gameplay. We don't NEED automated bots. Let the IDERPs or whoever be the dominant group when they deserve it. No problem. But for that, they have to invest the manhours and don't skip it with bots. The gold per hour becomes huge, only due to this automation and I don't see why that is acceptable or wishful.

I'm going to fishsteak bomb all ya'lls houses... with a macro... unattended

The base RUO and era-accurate IDOC systems are detrimental to any populated server's economical health and easily abused. On collapse everything except reagents, pots, magic weapons & armor, and maybe resources should be deleted as a natural gold sink.

Anyways....

Running zones isn't a difficult task when they are split up. I especially pushed creating runebooks to travel around designated zones much quicker.

Timing a single house is a simple process with razor. Timing with recall bots is a pain in the ass. The problematic part of this is that house signs need to be re-targeted for every new house. Target by type with a range check never worked for me even though Telamon said it would. I even went as far as targeting the runes individually so I could remove them from the rotation if the bot found out a house was refreshed.


The ugly part of IDOCing is that every step of it can be done automatically and in more sophisticated ways than razor, euo, and steam.

Why so croppy? Just spill the fuckin dirt if you've got some. I honestly don't know wtf that is but it looks stupid and inapplicable here. lol

I'm indiferent to this. I grew up in the times of sticking a quarter in your keyboard for gains, so I have only encountered afk-macroing in my reencounter with the game. And for as much as I would LOVE for people to be more "out and about", I understand that people have things to do during the day, and can't be acctive 24/7. What they do with their chars while they're afk earning plat (which is a whole nother discussion), is of little importance to me. They could be camping rares, macroing spirit speak, or IDing signs on GW houses. I refuse to let what others do afk affect my game play or enjoyment of the game.

Very hard to tell. Image-wise? Apparently horrible. From a practical perspective? Pretty much neutral, I'd say. I don't see the outcome being THAT much different from what it is now if it was removed.

No. Simply because neither is razor, the tool that allows that...and so much more.

It is practical for the IDOC groups. It would be a little more inconveniencing if they had to do it manually, but again, I do not see a different outcome simply because people seem to overestimate the inconvenience this would be to IDERP. Again, for me, personally, I think the effect of unattended bots for the shard is purely of a negative IMAGE. The actual outcome of IDOCs would not be significantly altered. We are talking about extremely "pixel-greedy" people. To think this will slow them down is simply laughable. You want to build a better mouse trap? Give them a week and they'll outsmart THAT. I guaran-f'ing-tee it.

Thanks for the calm answer. I can understand most, although I dont agree with everything. For example, it's important that people aren't allowed to camp rares AFK and same with other stuff like mining. Sure, it doesn't affect me directly, but the economy goes to hell, and gameplay changes to unattended AFK bots generating wealth. There are some examples of it already existing actually (e.g. unattended reg buying). Same with IDOC timer bots, just that the information itself doesn't generate the wealth, it's only a crucial part of it.

I also disagree with the effects on the IDOC groups when bots aren't working that way anymore. My guess is, from experience actually, that they would have to significantly increase their gametime to be as dominant as they are. I have killed their bots (also the bots of other IDOC groups by the way) for some weeks constantly and placed my own bots. I know, that they very poorly cover the "EU timezones" and it takes very long for them to restart the bots. So, unless they aren't changing their clocks and life planning, they wouldn't be able to keep that coverage. Especially as many of them aren't even investing much time. Everything has been done, to minize the workload and after years it has been pretty much perfected.

So the big change, apart from lesser gold per hour, would be that people have to actually play the game in front of the computers. With a mouse in their hands. You want the IDOC loot, then you should have to do the stupid work of clicking house signs with your mouse. This concept, that you actually have to play fits perfectly into the rest of the economic system of UO:R (you want ingots, then mine them attended, you want lvl7 maps then do the lower tmaps, you want AMIBs then fish attended, you want the timer for IDOCs then click the house sign). And it has been proven that it is possible. People have been doing it that way before they were able to do it fully unattended. So it's no "I hate all IDOCers and want them to disappear" argument. My argument is "the IDOCers want the loot, so they should have to work properly for it". It should make you wealthy, but then you should have to play the whole part of it and not just the 5 min noob bashing in the end of the whole process.