New Guild System Discussion

Discussion in 'Renaissance Discussion' started by Chris, Jun 2, 2014.

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  1. Chris

    Chris Renaissance Staff
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    As we move forward with our large faction update I am looking for ways to improve the ecosystem of guilds on the server. Specifically order/chaos, faction membership, NPC alliances. Wars, Alliances, etc.

    One way to accomplish this would be to merge various aspects of the old guild system, with the new guild system implemented late in the UOR era.

    The goals of this change would be roughly the following
    • Remove the faction membership system based on the guild leaders faction affiliation.
    • The guild master will now select a faction to align his guild with.
    • Faction guilds can have non faction members that are governed by normal guild flagging logic.
    • Faction guilds will be able to declare order/chaos. However faction notoriety will supersede this.
      This will allow for a hybrid setup of guilds allowing order/chaos/faction/non combat roles under the same guild umbrella.
    • Allow access to guild functions from the paperdoll or access to the guild stone via a double click.
    • Preserve guildstones and allow them to be placed in a classic manner
    • Allow guildstones to be the same color as the allied faction.
    • Allow for alliances between guilds that share a common faction/order chaos allegiances.
    • Allow for alliance chat.
    • Allow more players than the guildmaster to recruit/dismiss players from the guild.

    To read up on the new guild system you can check the stratics article here
    Stratics - New Guild System

    I have already added some rough edits to show how guilds will be able to set their faction, and order/chaos alliance from the main page.

    Urk Guild Page
    Guild1.png

    Urk Roster
    guild2.png

    Diplomacy
    guild3.png

    The various additional roles and permissions available under the new guild system.
    guild4.png

    So please read up on the new system and discuss pro's and con's of it and its potential application on Renaissance to improve faction/order chaos/guild combat while allowing more guild centralization rather than having to create multiple guilds.
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2014
    Chris, Jun 2, 2014
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  2. HateCrime

    HateCrime Well-Known Member
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    I see no issues with this system since faction rules supersede order/chaos rules. This effectively prevents two minax guilds from being order and chaos and fighting among eachother. Its nice to see all of this finally taking place. Being able to have blue characters in the same guild as factioned characters is great. No more need for two guild stones if you don't want to!
    HateCrime, Jun 2, 2014
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  3. Cynic

    Cynic Well-Known Member
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    I really don't see any drawbacks to this so long as blues who are not in factions but are in the same guild can not blue heal their guildmate who is in a faction.

    This make sense?
    Cynic, Jun 2, 2014
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  4. LudKrud

    LudKrud Active Member

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    I dont see anything bad with this other than the fact that I dont like colored guildstones......lol


    edit:I agree with Cynic on the blue healer aspect,non faction should NEVER be able to heal faction members.
    LudKrud, Jun 2, 2014
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  5. Liberation

    Liberation Well-Known Member

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    So a TB guild can be Order but not Chaos? A ShadowLord guild can be Chaos but not Order? Is that what it means?

    This seems legit.
    Liberation, Jun 2, 2014
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  6. Chris

    Chris Renaissance Staff
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    This would not be permitted by standard faction rules and therefore would not be an issue. Ergo faction rules will override guild rules.


    To be determined, however faction roles would supersede any order\chaos role. Most likely we would have to require that two factions have a choice of Order/None and the other two factions have the choice of Chaos/None.

    We would want to avoid situations where a TB Guild (Order) and a TB Guild (Chaos) could become confused by the whole situation. However this would only apply to non faction members of the guild. Faction members of the two guilds would flag as innocent to each other. While non faction members of both guilds would flag as enemies (order/chaos). This however could be confusing so we might limit the choices for guilds declared as faction guilds.

    The goal being diverse members of a guild can engage in whatever variety of guild combat they like, while in the same guild. Wars, Order/Chaos or Faction.
    Chris, Jun 2, 2014
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  7. Tay M'real

    Tay M'real Active Member

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    From a roleplayer's perspective...how would the war rules be applied if there is open war between (2) guilds (this is not related to Chaos/Order or Factions)? Is there an ability to have 'Citizens' of sorts that wouldn't be part of the active 'orange' tag and instead remain 'blue' as a non-combatant?
    Tay M'real, Jun 2, 2014
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  8. Gideon Jura

    Gideon Jura Well-Known Member
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    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
    Gideon Jura, Jun 2, 2014
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  9. Falx

    Falx New Member

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    I don't see why this is a problem.

    No meaningful changes in actual game mechanics, while providing utility in the guild/war system. Sounds like win/win
    Falx, Jun 2, 2014
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  10. Gideon Jura

    Gideon Jura Well-Known Member
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    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
    Gideon Jura, Jun 2, 2014
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  11. Falx

    Falx New Member

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    Tay in that case, you would do as always has been done. Put them on a non-war stone.
    Falx, Jun 2, 2014
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  12. Dalavar

    Dalavar Well-Known Member
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    What does Order/Chaos bring to the table that factions doesn't?
    Dalavar, Jun 2, 2014
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  13. Gideon Jura

    Gideon Jura Well-Known Member
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    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
    Gideon Jura, Jun 2, 2014
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  14. Gideon Jura

    Gideon Jura Well-Known Member
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    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
    Gideon Jura, Jun 2, 2014
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  15. Chris

    Chris Renaissance Staff
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    Just another mechanism for combat Dalavar, it can almost be viewed as warring multiple guilds at once. Factions will continue to be the main system. We are just exploring options to create more hybrid guilds resulting in a wider array of orange players out and about at any one time.
    Chris, Jun 2, 2014
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  16. Chris

    Chris Renaissance Staff
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    This situation would probably be best handled by selective war'ing and separate guilds for the combative division. You could accomplish this by having a faction only guild. So the players involved in a faction could be involved while normal guild members would still be considered innocents.
    Chris, Jun 2, 2014
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  17. corruption

    corruption Well-Known Member
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    This. I like this, a lot. TB and CoM by definition of the lore were supposed to be the good factions, and Shadowlords and Minax the bad ones. Aligning them with Order and Chaos respectively, is a good way to tie these two disparate systems together harmoniously, and allow a wider range of foes with less hoops to jump through.

    Many of the roleplayers dislike the idea of factions, because they don't feel like theres lore there to back it (which is not true and get at me on irc if you want the full rundown -- but lets just say its one of the few things story-wise that EA/OSI got right in UO, lore-wise). They do, however, see the inherently virtuous fight of good vs evil, and like that -- so this would let those people play into the same systems without pledging fealty to a faction whom may or may not align with their character's roleplay.

    What about faction statloss? With a pledge of Chaos and Order potentially being the default (which imo, it should be) if you are also a faction guild, will a Chaos/Order death cause faction statloss -- as in will an Order faction-aligned person killing a Chaos non-faction-aligned person cause statloss?
    corruption, Jun 2, 2014
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  18. Jupiter

    Jupiter Well-Known Member

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    What will the NPC classes will be included? Will they be global alliances or restricted to specific areas?

    Can 'good' aligned RP guilds have an NPC alliance wherein the NPC's naturally attack red/criminal folk? (Orcs naturally attack all player types, but having 'neutral/good aligned NPC's would seem contradicting if they attacked everyone including innocents)

    Can you set your own descriptions for ranks? i.e. the ranking levels will remain as 1-5, but can you set your own guild's ranking descriptions?

    GuildMaster - VerminSupreme
    Warlord - Rat Baron
    Emissary - Ratatouille
    Member - House Rat
    Ronin - Street Rat

    I can definitely see some awesome aspects of this, but I worry that some folks might exploit and/or completely confuse the "role-players" intent with the mechanical advantage. And we'd want to allow people to explore their options without worry that somebody is going to exploit it or somebody might cry foul.

    Example: Roleplayer BETA would REALLY love to be able to be allied with Evil Mages, walk among them, and help defend their towers.
    - Exploiter ALPHA sees that he can just make an RP guild wait in evil mage towers and gank somebody when they let themselves get down to 30 health
    - Whiner McGee is killed by a true RP evil mage, but doesn't realize that despite SEVERAL warnings and obvious signs that he was fighting an RP player, cries foul stating that the RP fellow exploited their advantage.
    Jupiter, Jun 2, 2014
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  19. Chris

    Chris Renaissance Staff
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    Sure, right now we have Orc/Undead/Pirate Guild Alliances. There is no limit to the creativity we can assign the system however from large to small. I need to get a guide up for the alignment system anyway where we can brainstorm ideas.

    As for the rank descriptions I am sure we could find a way to allow those to be customized. Gideon already mentioned to me it would be nice to drastically expand upon that system and allow guilds to create their own hierarchy.

    As for the example situation this would still be a murder, and under the current rules of the system an abuse of the alliance. Ergo we didn't design it to make life easier for PK's. The solution is contained zones of alliance similar to how the orc fort is setup. Where players entering are warned this is a danger zone, and the allied guild is flagged orange.

    At the moment the orc guilds are a functional test of that system we can build upon.
    Chris, Jun 2, 2014
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  20. Gideon Jura

    Gideon Jura Well-Known Member
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    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
    Gideon Jura, Jun 2, 2014
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