So Filling Bulk Order Deeds is Tedious - Lets talk changes.

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A rather bold and dare I say, ignorant thing to assert there, that what separates you from me is that you are concerned for the server and I must not be because I feel that unless something is damaging the server then it should be discussed before its just randomly nerfed. I supported the recall mining changes for the better good of the server but that apparently slipped your mind in that response. I think Corruption and I have the same concern with the willy-nilly razor nerfing and the broader issue of being told how to play the game.

• Ingots are used for filling blacksmithing BODs and creating weapons/armor, and in one extreme case one dude loves collecting as many as he can. That's it, no other answer needed.
• You already have some ideas, making the books public on the website to promote easier trading among folks would help. If you think you're going to find a way to make BOD filling "fun for everyone", then good luck, you have a more vibrant imagination than me. It's a grind to get the rewards you want, its not for everyone, you get creative within the rules.

But I'll spare us both any more frustration and ask that you disregard all the suggestions/posts prior to this and replace it with the following that will sit better with you:

"Great patch!"

Lol, this is a pointless discussion.

Chris, I laid out my explanations of how this is an overreaction already; you chose to ignore it and treat it as if all I care about is turnover rate. No, you've killed the end game that I played for -- and that you played for on UOSA based on our many previous conversations. If I ever had the impression that how I play was going to be marginalized, I wouldn't have devoted the last 6 months to helping this place grow. What you're aiming for goes against your stated advertised goal of the game you remember from 1999 with modernizations. This is not what I remember from 1999.

Miller is right, and the fact that every response up to now has been marginalized tells me theres no point in me trying to further explain what I already did. This is a knee-jerk reaction to a non-problem, plain and simple, and its going to cost you a dedicated portion of your player base. If your opinion is that this portion of your playerbase is somehow exploiting beyond the rules that were in place, thats fine... I just won't be part of it anymore.

You can marginalize me down to "I just am losing out on my gravy train" all you want -- but you have the AFK gump logs, and you can review and find I haven't mined in any kind of real capacity in months anyway. The fact that you have chosen to arbitrarily remove aspects of how people choose to play the game, just makes me concerned about the longevity of any player base here -- or any long term choices for game play style -- because theres no way to tell what will be the next greviously damaging metric to the economy.

Just admit it, Chris, you don't play on the shard so the data is your metagame. Thats fine and it can benefit the shard -- but stop trying to draw broad conclusions on how people choose to play the game based on it, because you're drawing misinformed conclusions.

To make Bods a bit less tedious, a change to bone armor and studded armor bods would be a huge help. Most of us just let those sit because their cost and effort to fill outweigh their reward.

In regards to the original topic: I think having a button on the small bods that allows for combining with every applicable item in a container is the only change necessary. Every other REAL issue surrounding this topic will be cleared up in time.

Oh there's a colored ore shortage out there? Sounds like an opportunity for people to make money to me.

And to the people that feel script mining is under attack: Bye bye, so long, nice to have known you, have a good life!

Marginalization of what people are stating does not invalidate the points they have. Sorry that you are misunderstanding what people are saying.

When entire aspects of the game are ripped out under you without warning under the guise of 'solving for problems' while still advertising yourself as an accurate representation of the game we all played 15 years ago happens to aspects of gameplay you're interested in, come back and talk.

The part that people are missing is that the ones complaining AREN'T COMPLAINING ABOUT THE FACT THAT THEIR EASY STREET IS GONE. THE FACT THAT YOU ASSHOLES KEEP MARGINALIZING IT DOWN TO THAT JUST MAKES IT OBVIOUS THAT A LARGER AGENDA IS AT PLAY HERE. If the decisions are already made on where the endgame is -- JUST PRESENT IT. Quit preening like peoples opinions actually matter, when all you do is brush them off as if they're meaningless anyway.

Why poll for data from the player base if your conclusion is already foregone... y'know?

I dont really have a dog in this fight but.........why does it matter why someone wants so many ingots?
Why do people need so many rares?
Why do people need so much gold/plat?

They need it because thats what they enjoy doing........if there was only 15 castle/fortress spots on the server and 1 guy had them all would he be forced to give them up because no-one else can get a castle spot now?The dude worked hard and got what he wanted....more power to him.Someone having 10 million ingots or 10 million gold in their bank/house doesnt affect me at all.

All I need to do if I want what they have is to go get it........thats the beauty of UO.

LoL

This whole thread is hilarious.

So many things I want to say but all I can do is laugh.

Basically corruption / miller / wodan have all hit the nail on the head.

I was in process of posting this response almost verbatim.

The why do you need "xxxx" argument is used almost exclusively by people trying to justify taking something away from someone/a group of people they don't have just cause to be taking away.

My rule of thumb is if you ever find yourself using this argument, you should stop and seriously re-evaluate what it is you're doing.

Do you guys realize how easy and quick it is to get colored ingots with a gargoyle pickaxe? I've had up to 8 ore elementals spawn from one vein. If we're talking dull copper, that's 400 ingots. Any other color and you're dealing with masonry elementals, which by the way, are way more profitable than the colored ore elementals if all you do is sell your harvest. It seems to me like you're all just mostly being bitchy with one another cuz that's the only way you know how to be. I suppose you guys can say "well it used to be like this on OSI" but isn't this history perfected?

I don't think you have the experience with the people complaining in this thread to make these judgement calls about what our reasoning is. Beyond that, the reasoning has been given to you; just admit that you don't accept that reasoning despite peoples adamant position that it is why they are complaining. But, by all means, keep marginalizing peoples opinions. Its gone great so far.

You're missing the greater point of that to compete as a miner, you have to be a PvMer here. I make a crafter to craft, not to fight monsters. Have I enjoyed fighting ore elementals, and reaped the benefit from them in the past? Sure -- but thats not the point. You're not introducing a new aspect to a miners gameplay, you're taking away what has traditionally been how miners work and altering it into a form thats completely unrecognizable from what it always was.

Its a slippery slope, and it feels like we're already on the declination of it. But yes, by all means, continue to marginalize these genuine concerns from people who have committed time, effort and money to helping this shard get to where it is as simply 'bitching at eachother'. You've got the pulse of this shard spot-on.

Let me go on to say........you guys claim that you aren't hurting the economy, but you have. the prices people are willing to pay for colored ingots is way too low, they've been spoiled. y'all claim there's an ingot shortage...prove it by offering higher prices, and I promise you more real miners will pop up. y'all claim that somehow because scripted mining was tolerated "back in the day of osi" that its also the only method of play you enjoy. well sometimes life doesn't work out like you want. I wanted to be a fisherman (obviously) but there's no money to be made at it on this shard...so I moved on to something else, mining.

you guys got your hands caught in the cookie jar. stop being crybabies and eat your vegetables, then you can get back to cookies.

you're absolutely right corruption, I don't have the extensive experience with this issue that you all have. I have a fresh perspective. trust me dude, you're crying over your pride, and nothing more

Okay I think I've mentioned them before but let me sum up my ideas how this could be balanced out.

- Put resource gathering messages back into SysMsg. This is should be the last resort to battle scripted mining - see how the other measures taken work out before you waste all your ammo on two Iron Elementals

- Make all ore strains "pure" strains that yield 100% of the same color. High level spots already yield less ore than low level spots due to the revised handling of mining fails (another nerf that happened recently ...) so they will be less effective than mining iron + low level spots. This should make mining more profitable and allow more efficient mining of the highly sought after colored ingots.

- Use tool delay & recall delay & troll spawn rate as parameters to balance recall mining. Stop bashing recall miners around like they harm this server and take away young players jobs. Instead either make up a number of ingots a recall miner should be able to achieve or let's debate about how many ingots should be farm-able per hour and then tweak the mechanics towards this number. Currently I'm trying hard to get 2'000 while there's supposed to be players that can. What's a fair amount ? 1.5k ? 1k ? 3k ?

- Add some very low level monster spawn to the popular caves for new players. This is very annoying for recall miners since they can potentially interrupt recalls and force you to interfere, any manual miner can just strike them with a katana hit or a fireball. I'm talking about sewer rats and mongbat style monsters here. Very thin and slow spawn is enough to make most recall miners use other places I'm sure.





I'm tired of hearing the argument recall miners are making it hard for new players to get into the ingot business. As a new player I started as a miner as well and mined for a few days straight. Never had problems finding places to mine and selling the ingots was also super fast on IRC. The reason why I stopped is that mining is easily the least effective way of making gold on this server. And the previous months have shown that even a dry market does not allow ingot prices to raise. Selling iron ingots for 8gp means making less than 16k/h. But each 1gp increase in iron ingot market rate makes a GM smith 45k more expensive than it already is.

No. Its not pride. It has nothign to do with pride. It has everything to do with how I've played this game for 20 years.

I spent the last year helping this place grow -- the last 6 months of it assisting Chris as a counselor and helping on irc -- only to have my opinions treated as if all I care about is profiteering. Thats fine, but it tells me a lot about the direction the shard is going; the simple reality is that direction is turning me off.

Quit marginalizing my opinions; if you aren't going to read into them, just don't respond to them.

That's just not going to happen. BOD flippers are already only looking for the low level colors for flipping. The demand for colored ingots is 99% from BODs filling colored bods for higher ingot prices does not pay off. Most sane people only flip iron bods only anyway ...

Ingots had to be selling for more than 20gp to make it worth the drag and no one is flipping bods with 20gp ingots when you can get 8gp ingots from NPCs to flip iron bods.

On the other hand training a GM Smith would cost more than a large keep if you were charging 20gp/ingot.

I'm only addressing you personally because you addressed me. I'm not marginalizing your opinion, if anything you're marginalizing me by implying I'm not even allowed to participate in this conversation. You don't like this shard anymore? I'll quote my original post in this thread.... GOODBYE