What PvP changes would you like to see?

Nope. Either your armor was busted, or you were wearing a mask and it was a headshot.

I tested 100 hits of a +15 Vanq Halberd, closest I could find to +25 Power. Min 2 damage, max 46 damage, average 22.66.

Then, I tested 100 hits of a valorite runic LBA (hardest hitting axe) against invulnerable leather. Min 11, Max 46, average 26.56.

Look, if you're complaining that a guy who spent 750k hit your 2,500gp armor too hard, when you could have reduced the damage by like 10 if you spent 12,500 instead, that's on you.

I just want to have a discussion about this stuff without people making wild, inaccurate, impossible claims about stuff.

I agree Dalavar, I have done extensive testing as well and I have never logged a hit in the 50's vs. barbed leather.

I have used agapite, verite and valorite runics on test and yet to see a hit vs. barbed leather go above the mid 40's and those hits were VERY rare amidst the whiffs.

Using Large Battle Axes, Double Axes, Executioners Axes, Halberds, Long Spears, Warforks and Warhammers to find the most consistent damage dealer in terms of weapon class.

So even with max damage being done, in my experience it's around 42-44 damage, that makes the possibility of a two hit very rare with swing speeds for heavy hitters being relatively low, a moving target, and the high probability of whiffs vs. an opponent with GM weapon skill or wrestling.

I'm not saying that damage in the 50's isn't theoretically possible but this is taking into account someone actually has a valorite or verite runic which is not something one runs into in the field every day. As you have pointed out as well, invulnerable leather bumps up the protection quite a bit and being fairly common as opposed to high end runic weapons the possibilty of HUGE damage vs. leather armored opponents becomes even more improbable.

Maybe I was just unlucky

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It's likely to be years before valorite weapons are 'common' in the field and not just events. The only dexxers that even put mages on the run are noxxies and that has nothing to do with AR.

Attila, you can have a lot of fun without Magery, but you won't be viable in PvP or greatly effective in PvM either really. You can have fun with it, but you'll save your life (in game) and time spent, having at least some Magery.

Or you can just join The Shadow Guard (See earlier post for details)

I'd personally like to see weapons crunched a bit - low level weapons should be buffed while high tier runics get a bit of a nerf. After that, AR values can be looked at.

Wulver played an archer really effectively for a long time and whipped the crap out of some of the big name mages on the server.
He had enough magery to heal, but he dealt all of his damage through archery.
He even got me once.

lol, why?

In any case, as far as you're concerned, this already happened. A few days ago, you were getting hit for 57 by a verite double axe. Today, you can't get hit for more than 46 with a valorite LBA. Nerfed!

That's not true though. I don't really care about this argument, but it's really hyprocritical for you to act like an LBA can't do more than 46 damage against a guy with 45 ar. I recorded 33 average damage, 51 max hit in a ~5 minute trial. Perhaps you have too much to gain for runic weapons doing high damage to be honest about the damage they can do. Personally, I had so much trouble keeping a character alive vs valorite axe types because of two shotting, I had to drop dex to 25 just to keep the character alive in the trials.

High end runics are already much more common on this server than they were in era. While I'd like new players to experience more consistent and higher damage against mobs with regular weapons, I don't think there's any fair argument for high end runics to do more damage.

But you know, what do I know, it's clear from this thread the most pressing things are pvp modes that have 0 magery and bolas and whatnot.

I'm not sure how much time it took, but I tested 100 hits and never saw more than 46 damage. You get 47 AR from a full suit of leather invulnerability armor, not 45. I believe you weren't using full leather, though, but a mix of ring and stuff? In which case, most likely the high hits you saw were the ones that happened to have high rolls against the weakest piece of armor you had.

Then again, I have no idea why you're seeing an average damage that's 6 points higher than mine too. That is really strange, and not something we could expect to be due to just 2 AR difference. My character has 100 STR, Tactics, Anatomy, and LJ, and his axe had 255/255 durability, so I don't think there's anything else I could be doing to make him deal more damage.

For sure, I explained the precise conditions and results of my test, which are verifiable and testable by anyone, on the hopes that no one else realized they could test this too and call me on it. And I lie all the time, especially about numbers.

Horseshit accusations aside, I'll probably test this again because I'm really curious about that average damage difference. But I suggest you should as well, with leather invulnerable armor, if you're really interested in validating this. Because testing against ring isn't really mimicking the most common field setup one would see.

If that's the case, then you should be testing full barbed. Because barbed is 100% the most common field setup. Occasionally i see a piece of invul on someone but it's pretty rare. The only place you see people always wearing full suits of it is in CTF.

How often do you see valorite LBAs on the field?

Precisely. It's called never because none exist and none will exist for some time, I assure you.
Quite the contrary though, nearly every time I die in the field, it is in a full suit of invuln armor with vanqs. Invun armor that has been forted to the max, is also a slap in the face to high armor damaging Macers. We are just barely seeing people dropping agapite weapons in the field and no one's running away like the world is on fire because they're out there. They hurt but it's nothing a well timed synch can't handle. Just ask Mutombo.

I tested all the valorite axes vs GM ringmail (think it was norse helm, plate gorget, 45 AR if I remember correctly. in 5 minute trials the LBA, BA, 2Haxe were doing 33-34 average damage according to a combat log book and max damage between 51-53. I think I would have found more outliers if I had continued to test more hits, and I may get on TC and do this.

And this is against higher AR than I think is the standard (even for CTF). I think it's a reasonable expectation that people should be able to use more common equipment and still be able to somewhat hang in pvp, even CTF. So all I'm supporting is the idea that min damage could be higher, but max damage would not be. I meet many people that don't understand why their normal and GM weapons don't do much damage. I report to Telamon when this happens. In the case of the guys asking for more damage in this thread (oh hey, coincidentally all the valorite crafters and users on the shard) I don't sympathize at all. And I think it's tacky for people to only lobby for 'balance changes' that benefit them only, and I believe staff does too.

Like I have said before, it isn't an issue as far as who lobbies for what here. There aren't going to be any changes so basically what these "what changes would you like to see" posts are simply fantasyland.

Everyone I talk to tells me how the combat mechanics here just don't seem right (I'm out there testing this stuff out btw). Doesn't matter because it is what it is.

I just got done with a dexxer vs. dexxer fight and it lasted 38 minutes (I timed it), I could have bailed but I wanted to see how long it would go. 38 minutes and it came down to me running out of TR potions (I carry ALOT). I had 56 AR (Combined Magic Bone and Ringmail) he had 39 AR (Leather) and I had Vanq Halberd and Vanq Executioner's Axe (All in good repair) he had a Power Warhammer. I didn't even mind losing to a final lucky hit before bandy kicked in because it was FINALLY over lol.

38 minutes of miniscule damage (hardest hit I saw was a 40 point warhammer strike, my highest hits were in the mid 30's and I didn't see them very often), whiffs and simply standing toe to toe trading blows while our bandies kicked in.

Guy with 56 AR, vanq halberd and axe w/LJ meets guy with 39AR leather and power warhammer and fight lasts for 38 minutes.This did not happen on OSI shards in UO:R or pre-UO:R, anyone who says it did was not there or was smoking more weed than I was.

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Gideon, we didn't wear armor and we simply *emoted* what we were going to do to each other, the loser simply admitted defeat when he could no longer come up with a suitable comeback.

I'm just saying this is the most boring combat I've ever seen since I started playing UO.

It's ok though because I know that when I get into a fight it's going to last a long time and the only way I'm going to die is if I run out of resources (there's a little bit of comfort in that) lol.

Well...if this is fantasy land like you said I'd rather just stay out of it. But I do remember full plate dexers not being able to kill each other on OSI. The feluccan dexers however didn't wear armor (many mages did not either), they just swung tribal spears and GM double axes and 2-3 shot each other.

But back then pvpers pvped 90% of the time when they were on, I think. Here we get our ducks in a row, train all our characters, farm up our castles, vanqs and such, and then just dip a toe in the pvp scene. And of course if we don't win or we get ganked we pull it out quickly and run to IRC or the forums to complain.

So this is part of the problem though. Not only do you have less AR than the actual invulnerable leather suit I was testing, but you also have pieces providing some better AR than invulnerable leather, and some providing worse. This shouldn't impact averages much, but for min and max damage it would have a big impact.

This is stupid. It's an event where you can never lose your equipment. I don't see why the event should cater to people who are too lazy to prepare for it.

Define "common". 5k would buy you GM barbed and a nice power weapon. 30k would buy you a fortification suit and a very high end vanq. 85k would buy you an agapite runic weapon and an invuln suit. Any of these seems pretty easy to me, considering you can get 180k a month just for being logged into the game.

Not to mention, just having 1 of each reg plus GM Magery, Med, and Eval, is more than enough to be effective at these events.

Chris has also mentioned working up a non-magic version of CTF, where the best you could possibly bring would be GM crafted stuff. I think it's a pretty good idea, though it would further shift the tide in favor of making mages better and weapon-swingers worse.

Less distance between the lowest and highest end weapons is something that works in the favor of new players.
GM weapons are relatively weak here, and the only dexers that are extremely effective are those that have the money to play the bod game.
I tend to favor systems that enable even those without a lot of wealth to grab some supplies and be effective in pvp.

Why do people act as if events don't count? The people getting the highest kills by far in CTF right now are those with valorite/verite axes. Right now CTF is the most prevalent place for pvp on the server since oranges are all afraid to come out of their houses.
It seems to me that it's fair game to analyze pvp in that context.

Additionally, I think that CTF should be safe, newbie friendly pvp for people who don't have the experience or supplies to dip their toes into factions yet.
Right now it's the richest people on the server showing up with their best runics and getting dozens more kills than anyone else, as well as premade teams stomping on everyone's nuts.
I certainly would not be interested in taking part in CTF as it is now if I were a newbie.

Well on Lake Superior the Feluccan dexmonkeys wore dex suits. Plate vs. Plate was a bit of a long fight, but here it can be a leather vs. plate fight and it's still a long fight lol.

Mes I'm not really that bummed about the system here, as I said there's alot of comfort knowing that the only way I'm going to die is if:

A) I run out of resources

B) Get ganked

C) Lose connection

It is what it is and I enjoy casually playing here and the friends I've made.

As far as these "changes" posts, yes I believe they are fantasyland because nothing is going to change as far as the combat mechanics are concerned. We all know this, it would piss off too many people, but in true forum warfare fashion it's fun to throw some shit out there for the sake of argument or for argument's sake depending on your perspective.