I think nothing should be done at all about the stat loss system unless you risk even more trammel than we already have instead of wanting game mechanics to balance them, how about grabbing a group of players and ambushing them, learn their alts, kill them too, refuse to do trades with them (buying or selling) if you are tired of them hindering your gold earning That's one big difference I've noticed here, on prodo the blues did a lot more to keep the pks in balance.
This is the right line of thinking. The greater the risk, the more likely players are to mitigate that risk by playing dirty. There are already a lot of reds on this server who look to pick up easy kills and avoid any risky battles. Increasing the weight of statloss would only reinforce these behaviors and encourage reds to further stack the deck in ways that are disadvantageous to their victims. A lot of this is because it's difficult to do here. I want to kill reds, it's the thing I'm most interested in doing in game. They're just so hard to catch. The most active reds here avoid conflict whenever they can, and any attempts to kill them will end with them running away. Either it's running into the sunset with a gheal wand in their hands, or them having their gatebot open a gate to their house. It's standard procedure for these guys to run away, and then if they feel like they can win a fight them come back on factioners. On OSI reds actually wanted to fight you, it made killing them a lot easier. On this server the reds seem more concerned with killing newbies to farm points on the database or something.
Hahaha I dig it! I would love to get a group together to make sure that damn murderer champ spawn is never successfully run, or die trying.
Sounds kinda cool, but the thing is, at least for me, I have no desire to lose my counts as a red. a Reds kill total is kind of my trophy so to speak, so I have no intention of burning counts. That's the exact reason I never leave my red logged on when I'm not using her. But who knows I may be the only one, but I do think it would be a cool way to promote anti vs red activity.
It's a cool idea because it promotes fighting. I don't care about having murder counts removed, though. I'm pretty much attacking and going after people from the moment the character creation screen is finished.
I have always thought that the bounty should somehow affect stat loss. Like 100k g bounty would be 10% stat loss, 200k 20%, 300k 30%, etc... or something similar. That way when you bounty someone you know your are semi screwing them should they die and as a PK collects counts and bounty they can be proud that the bounty is X but scared that they might be deep in stat soon.
The problem with that is people could kill their pk on an alt and use your bounty as funds to retrain it
It seems that the biggest problem people have with the statloss system is that reds can keep their shorts low fairly quick and get back into the action. How about this..... many pk's have an ungodly amount of long term counts but keep their shorts low because they decay pretty quickly like 8hours or so. So, how about we tie short term decay of counts to a tiered system. For example, for every 50 long terms, it takes more hours to decay a short term. I wouldn't do something too drastic, but maybe a jump of 2 hours per short count for every 50 long term. Like, at 50 long terms, each short count would take about 10 hours to decay rather than 8. Then, at 100 long terms it would be plus 2 more hours which would make it 12 hours for each short term to decay rather than 8. and 14 hours at 150 and progress it that way. I could see this working out for pk notoriety as well: the dude with 300 counts now seems pretty badass because the more he kills the longer its going to take him to burn through those counts especially if he's a very active pk. he's definitely got a risk now. Another idea would be to make bounties more dangerous to a pk (and profitible for those who hunt them) like someone had mentioned earlier in the thread, but tweak it a bit. Maybe if you personally plop down a bounty of 10k or something, you extend the timer of your personal short term count that you add to them by an X amount of hours. 10k for 1 more hour or something. The amount could be low enough for most players to pay if they were inclined to make the pk sit out more. I do agree with the others that plat should not be accumulated by someone in stat loss burning counts. There is no risk there and only gain.
There's no risk for blues standing around gaining plat either. While I've spoken out in the past that there shouldn't be incentive for standing there burning counts, it would be unfair to impose such a standard on a play style because they are criminal in character. There's no point in changing how long it takes to burn counts, at all really. Three accounts and easy money through alts makes it a moot point. Any red with over 20-30 shorts would be stupid not to just res/train through it, rather than wait it out. My vote would be a revamp of the Justice Virtue System and implementation of a Lawless Anti-Virtue that could replace statloss systems (completely, like remove them) with a more goal oriented system that encourages not only reds to stick around and fight purveyors of Justice, but likewise increase the amount of those seeking to dole it out.
I think most reds carrying a lot of short terms counts would like the notoriety that comes along with having a big bounty. It would be important to balance how much gold would knock off an additional skill point but at some point a well known red with a high bounty would go to zero. To me it would just be rewarding to be the guy killing someone knowing full well I just deleted a character for them and if I was behind the red I think the rush of playing a full stat loss character would be exciting.
Considering you can rebuild a pk char in a week for about 200k I dont see the utility in exchanging a high bounty for deep stat, all they lose is a few days of gametime
The 15 characters across 3 accounts (plus the 15 from your "girlfriends" account) really dicked the dog on alot of things. I dont think the red population is out of control but think alot of average pvpers have turned to pking and ctf only with factions and c/os current state
How to handle murderers/stat loss is a pretty core concept to a server. I don't think it's something that will be changed 2-3 years into the server. It's something that is considered and discussed before a server launches and unlikely to change based on a thread like this. It's as big of a deal as deciding to add in insurance or trammel facets at this point. I think that one of the best things about stat loss and the time involved with working short terms is it punishes having multiple reds kill one target. You know that if someone pk's you you can add 8 hours/1 short term to their count. If five players get you that's now 40 hours. And I don't mean to imply that allowing people to team up on others is mechanically flawed. But I think that in practice when people can't solo monsters because 5 people will always jump them, then it's nice to have some mechanics that promote solo'ing. And unfortunately, as has already been stated, having three accounts/15 characters makes this only a third as painful. Multiple accounts causes a lot of issues. I think it would be better all around if we could only have one on at a time. But there are obvious reasons why the big servers allow three accounts. And most of the people in this thread probably wouldn't be willing to give that up for increasing the hardship on murderers. Anyways, my point is, don't expect something to come of this thread. It may not be fair to expect Telamon to change something so fundamental at this point. And I think other servers that have come up with complicated solutions have been very shortsighted. The best thing the community can do is be more organized about hunting pks. The OP gets pked by people in his own guild. Why is that? He may have pked his fair share himself. Maybe people concerned about reds should support guilds like the regulators and assist them in scouting and chasing reds. Maybe a lot of these issues can be handled in the community instead of by the staff.
MES has spoken! We should probably stop discussing this........ oh wait? this is the PvP Discussion forum, where you go to discuss things related to PvP. What Telamon does and does not implement is up to him, all we can do is bring up suggestions for community discussion. I am not going to filter my ideas based on my assumptions as to what will or will not be changed. "The op gets pked by people in his own guild." wtf are you even talking about and how does that relate to anything going on here? First, this suggestion comes not from me being pk'd, I didn't spend more then 1 morning fighting elves overland. Instead it came from simply observing the "so and so has a bounty of X gp placed on their head" messages in irc all day long for weeks, using myuor to look up these said murderers and just being honestly surprised that none of them ever managed to even get into stat. Honestly, even if my guildmates do pk me, I could care less, and do not see how that relates to the suggestion. As a roleplayer, I like to let people play whatever role they are on that character, who am I to deprive a pk myself as a target just because we are friends on different characters? As nearly everyone in this thread has conceded, it takes a great deal of teamwork and time to chase down reds, and them being able to rez and run a restock agent and be back at it makes that effort rather futile indeed. In place is a system that is design to punish mass murdering, and that system is not working properly due to the 3 account limit. I do not share your sentiment that tweaking the system in order to better deliver its intended punishment is off the table just because the shard has been here for 2-3 years, especially not just because you tell us all it is so. Even if Telamon is reading this whole thread thinking exactly that, "this shit is NEVER gunna happen," lets just leave that to him and continue to use this forum to discuss our ideas as it was meant. All that being said, what I have taken so far from this discussion is that my original suggestion is too harsh, and the suggestion that seems more appropriate is simply increasing the amount of time it takes to burn a short murder count to reflect the 3 account limit.
So let me get this straight...You read about pks in chat and started a thread and got butt hurt when the guy with the most short counts and knowledge on the subject stated his opinion "where you go to discuss things."
Relax. I understand your concerns and I think there's a lot of legitimate complaints. The main reason I have tried to avoid posting much in this thread at this point is because I don't want it to turn into another shit post as blaise and others will follow me around and make it personal. All I'm saying is I believe it's difficult for Telamon to make big changes to how pking is handled after a three year precedence has been set. I have acknowledged twice in this thread that there is a legitimate concern that three active accounts makes an 8 hour short term count one third as punishing. I don't speak for Telamon. But I do think it's unreasonable to expect too much change on this issue. I promise you it's not because Telamon is sympathetic to pks. Any suggestion in the realm of that champ spawn idea and changing the concept entirely seems unreasonable to me. If some change ever did happen, which I doubt, I think it would be along the lines of a short term taking longer to burn off. However, it is era accurate currently, and that's where I suspect it will remain.
Nobody is butt hurt. I found issue with the idea that we shouldn't be discussing this because its too core to the server and things will never change. I will leave that up to Telamon. The rest of his opinions are very valid and appreciated, I just see no point in the proposition that things will never change from suggestions "in a thread like this".
Time to deflate that ego a touch there Glorious Leadermes. You're starting to sound a lot like Double Vision these days. I follow the forums and whose name is beside a post isn't even remotely relevant. I am here to discuss ideas and feel that no idea is too outlandish for discourse or conversation. I don't think you were blatantly trying to stifle the conversation but the tone was definitely on the order of "don't bother having this conversation because my opinion is that it will never change". /me golfclaps Thanks for your opinion as it is definitely relevant to the conversation. The IRC notifications are pretty cool and will come in handy, should a group of hunters actually come around. The problem I've seen is that no one wants to consistently stay at the ready to hunt reds because they can go get their PvP rocks off by being one instead. If that's not your bag, ever, hit me up and hopefully soon we can get something going on the order of what Mes was really trying to get at: Player Justice
