I dislike the line of reasoning that assumes all blues are good and that greys and reds are bad. It's very one-dimensional and naive. A person can be red, grey, and blue all in the course of a single hour. Does a person's character change when their notoriety changes? Obviously not. If a guy goes grey looting his buddy's corpse, he's not the bad guy. The blue noto PK that attacks him while doing so is. If a guy goes red or grey attacking some idiot looting his kills to piss him off, he's not a bad guy. He's a victim. The presumption that reds and greys are automatically bad guys is incredibly ignorant and misses one of the things at the heart of UO - you can really do what you want and that includes playing dirty. It's also naive to assume that any rules you put in place to protect blues will not be abused by the blues with more malicious intents. With regards to heat of battle mechanics, I'm in favor of era accuracy which would apply the same rules to everyone regardless of notoriety. I think that's the most fair. I am aware that Telamon changed it to not apply to blues as part of his trammel lite program, and I guess there's not a lot that can be done about that since he's not really open to new ideas unless they come in the form of months of whiny PMs, which I am not willing to send him. I do think the rules should apply to everyone else, though. And that like I said, any special protections you extend blues because they're the "good guys" will likely be taken advantage of by those that are blue but not so nice.
Oh this stuff from blaise is not naiveité but willful blindness. He just likes to put on this self righteous show here since he's got nothing better to do.
It's not a presumption. If you are red, you murdered to get there and are a criminal. If you are grey, you have committed a crime according to the game mechanics you are more than likely familiar with. It is not one-dimensional to be playing in accordance with notoriety as it was designed. It's not ignorant, it is fact. If you're out there playing a hero on a red, you're doing it wrong. The freedom of the game allows you to try, but the restriction of being a criminal should apply. A noto-PK isn't a blue attacking a grey, FYI. It's a blue taking murder counts while never going red because they burn off the counts. Double Vision was a prime example. If we had looting rights, as would be appropriate for a notoriety system, people looting other player's kills would be flagging the criminal and putting them at due risk for their crime (they had no right to take what they didn't earn just because they were standing there). I dislike the line of reasoning that because you put yourself in a position to be brought to justice that others should be able to be trapped by your bait tactics (which has been witnessed more than once). I'm not putting on a show, nor am I being willfully blind. I see it clear as day that this is the only way to respond to Mes:
A murderer is a different status then being criminal. Sure you may be a criminal for a few minutes after killing somebody, but that criminal status will wear off. I may be a murderer blaise, but I am NO CRIMINAL (currently).
You don't know what a noto PK is. A noto PK is a person who uses notoriety to PK people. As in, you get them to flag and you kill them count free. Or you flag and you kill them when they're dumb enough to attack you. It's all about getting the kills without the counts. Mes and I were one of the more well known noto PK duos on Baja for awhile. It's pretty easy to do and you do it count-free by abusing the notoriety rules.
First, you're just wrong about the term noto-pk. This refers to someone who will attack you if you go grey/red. For example: "you're grey, so and so is going to try to noto you." It is basically anyone that gets kills without murdering. Or the noto-pk is grey and you attack them and they kill you. By flagging or looting your kills or whatever. Kind of like what Pax Romain and Pill like to do all the time. Secondly, all this PK trammel stuff is idiocy. When you're a neon wearing, pvm'ing newbie dexer do you know how silly you look running around calling the reds and pvpers trammies? All this is about is a return to an idea that if you attack a player you wouldn't be able to recall for 30 seconds (as was expected in era.) I don't think you could cast/touch gates either. And there was a point where you couldn't run into a house after you initiated a fight too. But I'd be quite happy with just a return to how we had it on UO:R over a year ago. The only thing you got right was we're probably wasting our breath because Telamon doesn't care what we think and he's more influenced by you berating him with whiny irc messages daily. thats you whats what you look like
I guess that makes sense if that's how you understand Noto-PKing. That's not the understanding I've had but I suppose I could be wrong. Still no big deal really. Just more abuse of mechanics to suit your nefarious intentions. If you really think I'm whining behind the scenes in PMs, you're sorely mistaken. I was actually rather surprised when Telamon proposed these HoB changes. But yes, I was absolutely supportive of restrictions being lifted from innocent characters. If you're abusing the mechanics to stay innocent while still doing criminal things, that's nothing out of character for any of you. lol If you want PKs to be able to trap innocents by goading them into flagging for a fight, you want PK Trammel. I'm sure you'll have no trouble finding victims with this mechanic staying in place. If it makes you so bitter that someone can return the fight and choose to leave when they want, there's a simple solution: stop murdering people. I'm confident that travel restrictions will be addressed at some point to be more appropriate for factions but I'm just as confident that you won't be seeing restrictions for people who don't return aggression. If Telamon reverts the freedom to attack for innocents, that'll be a surprise but nothing to get upset about. I played with it before and it never turned me off but I like that there's at least SOME benefit to being good, as there should have always been in this game. Trammel itself was created specifically because there was no good system of justice for murderers so their prevalence was driving down the player base. If nothing is ever done to promote good alignment, you can be certain this shard will go the way of all other shards that have ignored that terribly broken/underdeveloped system of notoriety. elhorno, just because you log on your blues after, doesn't make you less of a criminal when you're playing your red(s).
Except that you can be red and non-criminal. If a murderer was perma-criminal he could NEVER recall. As I said before, being a murderer and a criminal are separate things.
Being red you are perpetually criminal (thus freely attacked), unrelated to travel restriction based 'criminal flagging' which is specific and ONLY applicable to recently committed crimes. Yes, you totally got me on that word play. *golf claps*
I would say that it's more in your character than it is mine. You're the one that is best buds with bart and friends, and you're the one that is in bed with the lililililis. I tend to promote honesty and kind treatment of newbies no matter what my notoriety is at the moment. There have been many instances where I've logged on my red to kill blues harassing newbies. Either way, this is a relatively pointless discussion. I'm in favor of a ruleset as close to era accuracy as we can get it, and since Telamon seems pretty firmly in favor of removal of the restrictions on blues I think this is about as close as we can get. I think the server does have a trammel problem, but I expect things to continue this way. Instead of having a dialogue with the most prolific reds (like you and your friends) about rampant killing of newbies, things seem to be moving in the direction of more trammel.
lol, just because you're not currently the most prolific reds doesn't mean you didn't start here, continue as and currently just hide out on, your red characters. I find it very comical that you think it's more in my character than yours to abuse mechanics to my advantage. Short of Freesist sessions, which have been determined to likely work without the damage nerf in housing regions, what have I done to abuse mechanics to my advantage? I'll be sure to wait for fucking eternity for you to cite any example of me personally abusing mechanics. I know I won't have to wait any time at all for you to make some ridiculous claims about TB living in the event center or whatever other nonsense you use to justify boldly abusing mechanics regularly to suit your desired level of cheap 'wins'. The server does have a Trammel problem, 100%. It's a problem wherein players seem to think that making mechanics that make actual sense and promote honest game play within a sensible rule set, means Trammel. Or worse yet, being restricted from using broken designs from 15 years ago to exact the most heinous things you can muster on an innocent player, just because you can. It really boggles my mind how upset players get about a game getting better for PLAYING, and worse for abusing players with broken or poorly designed systems.
What are you talking about, Blaise? I stopped pking because I feel like the server is overhunted. There are groups (like yours) that kill too many people. Not only that, you and your friends are more than happy to hit the same spot every 15 minutes for hours. I know you'd like us all to forget, but your side abuses mechanics just as often as anyone else. And unlike anyone else, they're the most likely to lie about it and cover it up. I've seen you personally cover for exploiters (and worse) when they're caught, multiple times. Even here, the notoriety rules you're arguing for are rules that your buddies will gladly exploit. All it means when you say you haven't exploited mechanics means is that a) you haven't been caught or b) you didn't do it personally, your friends did. You're much more the type to sit back and let your friends do it while you keep up the blameless act. The problem is that we have too much trammel. It's trammel pvp every night. People bank literally in trammel because the event center gates are always up. Rules get dumbed down (and in exploitable ways) to protect newbies. Stealing constantly nerfed. Seemingly indefinite extensions of young status. Instead of all of this trammel shit, we need a) better education for newbies on the rules and b) people like you and your friends to stop shitting where they eat. Not only is there a culture of "reds don't have to fight", it's a culture of "reds shouldn't fight and should just run away" and that's perpetuated mostly by your group. I think longer criminal recall restrictions for reds might be a good thing so that notos can chase reds down and kill them. It's kind of ironic that you're accusing us of wanting red trammel, we're the ones who think the red culture here is too chickenshit. You and your friends are the ones that would love red trammel.
please elaborate. You mean you think I should be locked in for your friends to gank me I assume, since it's not like you're going to fight me on your own
Should be how it always was, aggressor could not recall, but the person being attacked could. That should have never been changed. I cannot count how many times I had an orange start a fight with me to just recall away. As far as the non aggressor target not being about to flee, goes against UO completely.
Is there plans to add heat of battle for factions? And what about aggressors? If a blue explos a red can he recall away and wait to see if his explo helped in the gank?
so Adam Ant was "doing it wrong"? i would call you an idiot if i thought you believed the shit you were saying. as mes and napo pointed out, you are completely wrong about this.
Pretty sure I posted a week ago that I could be wrong about the subjective player-defined term "Noto-PK" but it still bears no relevance to the topic at hand. Criminals deserve the restrictions whereas innocents do not. Despite napo's ramblings, I don't abuse mechanics and I lambast those who do, regardless of what 'side' they are on. The entire 'run away from fights you're sure not to win' is something Mes taught me specifically. So please, do go on about how I had anything to do with that culture napo. lololol I'm sure it would please you greatly to find me abusing mechanics, unfortunately for anyone of like mind, it won't happen because you can't find something that doesn't exist. The only times I bank in the event center is when I'm attending events. It's ok though, keep on the hate train trying to support terrible mechanics that suit your terrible play styles. Also, sorry Lib, one historically heroic murderer in UO does not convince me that you should be able to be a criminal with no justice applied.
Adam and had a guild called GUL of which I was a Commander. There were a great many of us and we all acted as Adam did. It was not just one person. Justice is applied to murderers. The fact that you do not think it is enough does not mean that it is none at all, nor does it fulfill the burden of proof that should have been required for the HoB changes. I suppose it is easier to ask forgiveness than to present rational arguments.
