For the sake of all UOR gods: a steal fail on 5 plats?!?!?! (100% confirmed)

Let's do this.

Sig quote anyone? xD

Done.

I didn't really read all of this but I think you miss the point that wealth doesn't matter, I die to newbs if I mess up (on non pvp templates, I kind of prefer a tracking/detect/hiding/stealth/snoop/stealing/magery or a healing/anat/stealing/snoop/hiding/magery/wrestle template both of which can't take a lot of damage in direct combat, that doesn't matter either, but what does matter is

Failing on low weights consistently, the stealing skill rarely getting 10 stones worth of items
failing on stacks which never happened on prodo
guardwhack messages in town which happen almost every other steal
taking forever to steal small stacks of things when fails are combined with skill timers
failing on disarms then failing the steal when you get the disarm sucks
guards on every bank corner
always go grey (which was never a mechanic on prodo) which keeps us from stealing and having a chance of success to get supplies out of the bank (with the fails here you're dumb to keep your regs and whatnot on you while trying to steal, you're just going to lose them thanks to the rng most likely and people who say don't steal in town make me think they never played fel prodo ever)
And there's probably dozens of other factors gimping up the class


the entire point of my wanting the class fixed is to make it FUN like it was on prodo. It's not that fun here, it's a sad collection of half assed mechanics and fails. I don't give a flying fuck about gold or items as well I've proven time and time again. I just want the class to work like it is supposed to.

Just finished some testing. Data bears out what we're experiencing.

Test 1: 10 plat stack. 50 steals. Total weight: 1 stone

0 fails
1 : 2 coin steal
49 : 10 coin steals

As I was testing I was starting to expect it to grab 10 coins every time but that one outlier of only stealing two got my attention

Test 2: 10 lockpick stack. 50 steals. Total weight 10 stone

7 fails
5: 1 pick
3: 2 picks
7: 3 picks
6: 4 picks
5: 5 picks
5: 6 picks
2: 7 picks
3: 8 picks
2: 9 picks
5: 10 picks

So, here we get more variance. Likely due to weight. notable are 7 fails in addition to 26 successes of less than half the stack.

I admit this is a relatively small sample size, but the data clearly shows that the variance is all over the place. Seems pretty random, although again i believe it's noteworthy that out of 50 steals, 33 resulted in half the stack or less, including fails. That's sub optimal 66% of the time. Due to the small sample size, that number is misleading and I feel as though it's probably high and would normalize with a larger data set.

That said, it's clear that stealing is pretty effin random. UOR deserves better IMO. I'd support a no fail, 5 stone steal minimum for stacks. We would still have all the challenges involved in locating a mark with desirable items and all the other difficulties that go along with thieving in general, but if we manage to navigate the barriers to getting in position to steal from a stack, we would be rewarded with something. Not the whole stack every time, but something every time, at least half.

Does having people in the area affect success chance?

Thanks alot for the effort, Tuco. It proofes that stealing bigger stacks (gold or regs usually) is gruesome, and can take a huge amount of tries for 100 regs or 500 gold. But we knew already, that stealing stacks is totally crippled.

No fails on plats is notable though. Perhaps there is a difference for freshly dropped plats into bags? Else, I can't understand why this regularly happens (I checked my previous thieving posts and it happened before too).

NP, BlackEye. I want this to work right as well as the rest of us.

My speculation is that there is a fail chance on every steal, which would account for failing on plats (and other things).

I think ElHorno and I are going to eliminate observers as a factor later tonight.

If you want to take it even further try doing runs on 10 stone weps down to 1 stone weps for fail comparisons

I was thinking of doing just that on the way to work, Jack.

Everybody stand back! I'm gonna science this bitch!!!

Ok! the following tests were conducted on production (the live shard) with an observer 2 tiles distant with LOS.

Items of each weight were stolen 50 times each. steals were targeted by cursor (no last target)

Items 1 stone through 7 stones were stolen 50/50, 100% of the time, that is.

At 8 stones we start failing...

8 stones : 41 success, 9 fails. 82% success rate
9 stones : 32 successes, 18 fails, 64% success rate
10 stones : 25 successes, 25 fails, 50% success rate

Seems pretty reasonable.

My expectation was that 10 stone fails would be more than 50%, as I regularly attempt to steal 10 stone tools from town chests to clear them to make the chest respawn faster and it feels like I fail way more than 50%. Most likely because fails stick out in my mind as I have to wait 10 seconds to try again. The numbers do not bear this out, though. Negative focus bias, I expect.

Anyway, the data suggests that single item steal rates are just fine. Stealing stacked items is a wonky mechanic, single items are just fine.

Thank you for your time,
Ramirez Enterprises Research Division

stealing a stack is more than likely 100% with a random rng stack %

50% on a 10 stone items seem too low to me, it should be 80ish to reflect a grandmaster's skill. On prodo you'd fail, but you didn't expect to fail half of the time.

Sorry, no.

There were 7 fails out of 50 steals on a stack of 10 lockpicks. 7/50 /= 0/50

Must have larger sample size than 50 for maximum effectiveness!

Yeah, I wasn't looking to do much more than coarsely identify trends in the data. A proper experiment would have been at least twice as many tests, 1000 would have been best probably, but 50 was sufficient to show that stealing stacks is highly variable and stealing single items is much more consistent.

Please feel free to perform stealing tests and publish your data. If we all do 50, we can arrive at significant numbers. Otherwise, we can use the current information to understand what is happening in a general way when we steal.

@Tuco, what item was used during the test? There was a doubt about Platinum Coin having a different difficulty to steal. Did you try on Platinum to check if it makes sense or not?

I thought I mentioned that...

The single items were various weapons, armor pieces, and rares weighing the appropriate stone.

Indeed, but differently from this last one the former was ran on the test server instead of the live server, right?
Theoretically there shouldn't be a difference though.

Yes, the first run was on test. Wanna loan me some plat on live to test there? I'll give it back! (unless I accidentally misplace it, I'm so forgetful!)