OMG... Archery is absolutely terrible...

I hate to beat this drum again, but I think it needs to be said again.

I know Archery has its very small number of uses....
...but it absolutely BLOWS!!!

I went onto test center to fiddle around with an stealth assassin type toon. I was trying to decide on Fencing or Archery as a weapon skill.
...I completely decided on fencing Bee Tee Dubs...

I set up a character to beat on that had 80 str, (90hp) and just a set of GM Barbed Leather armor. Thats pretty much 90% of anyone you would see out and about. I gave him 25 dex and some bandages with GM Healing/Anatomy/Wrestle and set him to loop applying a bandage every 15 seconds, and went on to shoot him repeatedly with a GM bow. My character had 80strength, 90 dex, was naked, and had GM: Archery/Tactics/Anatomy.

Just to be clear...

ATTACKER:
80STR
90DEX
GM:Archery
GM:Tactics
GM:Anatomy
-Shooting with an Exceptional Bow then with a +25Archery/Vanquishing
-Stood directly next to DEFENDER for approximately 50 of the arrows with the GM Bow, and all 100 with the Vanq


DEFENDER:
80STR
25DEX
GM:Healing
GM:Anatomy
GM:Wrestling
-Suit of Exceptional Barbed Leather
-Healing on a 15 second bandage loop
-Did not move

He literally never died. I went through 100 arrows, he didnt die. I stood RIGHT NEXT to him and shot him in the face.... ....he didnt die. I got a PERFECT FLIPPING BOW, (Vanq/+25archery) and stood next to him with ANOTHER 100 arrows... HE DIDNT DIE! 100 more arrows, he came close, prolly rolled low on his bandages twice in a row once, but DIDNT DIE!

Just for giggles, I got a bunch of greater explosion potions to see if the damage was comparable. Same crash test dummy, same stats, same bandage loop. For fairness, I heatseeked each potion to simulate chasing someone down. Bandages kicked in before he died once, but didnt heal him completely, then he died before his next bandage could finish.

Thats right, Purple potions, requiring literally 0 skill investment, do considerably more damage and cant be "wrestled."
I didnt test to see if I could kill someone with 100 lesser explosion potions under those conditions.

Im sorry, but something is wrong. I know you can achieve the pinnacle of ranged damage with a bow AND purple pots, but prolly 85% of the damage is coming from the explosion potions.

phew...

Era accurate.

Working as intended.

I think people have found that archery is not as effective when standing right next to the target. There's a sweet spot a few tiles away, right?

Please repeat in a distance of 2-3 tiles.

Btw, the trick is not to use pure archers. And if you do, then it's clearly not soloing you want. You would need to try out an archer tank mage and develop combinations etc.

I think you guys are missing the point that variable hit chance of any form outside of 50% @GM versus GM is complete and total trash.

Ill try again from 2-3 tiles away... We shall see.

I totally understand that from stealth, archery alone would be underwhelming. I also understand that in a normal field fight, standing there shooting arrows is useless.
Im just saying that with ANY OTHER source of damage, you could out damage a 15 second bandage timer.

Ill admit, I could just be doing it wrong. Ill test it again from 2-3 tiles away, and use a bow, crossbow, and Heavy crossbow to see if its just me.

I mean, you would stand a better chance of killing someone by just taking Magery/Med and spamming poison + purples then you would taking archery as a WEAPON SKILL....

Sorry, I could just be grumpy too ^_^

Yeah, there seems to be a pretty big issue with weapon damage in general... I wish that maybe archery had a special ability? Maybe like the players shot by a bow either bleed out for an additional amount of damage over time or maybe they can no longer run? It would benefit the skill a lot. As far as killing someone with just archery? Seems era accurate to me that they could potentially heal with only bandaids looping at 15. Maybe to improve the game this loop could be reduced to the 11 or 12 range in correlation with the defenders dexterity?

In the meantime there is no reasonable solo stealther build (maybe fencing) that is viable. The template would need to be built with teamwork in mind.

I think the problem with UO players in the modern age is that they want to be able to do everything themselves and shard owners have, for the most part, encouraged this type of gameplay. Then, inevitably, someone wants to do a certain template and finds out it's not all that viable solo so they take to the forums asking for change.

That's understandable Alice, however, this isn't quite that generic. Archery has been a pain point for ages. It was awesome once when people could cast with bows in hand (however, OP), then it was garbage until pretty much AoS. As I understand, it became pretty fucking good and maybe OP again there.

The problem as I see it here, was a bloated "fix". It sucked bad here because stop to shoot was like a two second delay. Your target is basically half-way through dinner if you stop in a foot chase to pop off a shot. Instead of just dropping that to a 1/4 tick (0.25)s, variable hit chance based on movement and range was added. While fancy and fun to consider, ultimately it just made Archery as lackluster as before. Which is why nearly everyone would recommend against it, unless you insisted for RP or preference.

If we could just drop all that variable shit and have it work like normal weaponry, with 1/4 tick stops to shoot, it would work great. How do I know? Because it works exactly like that in other places and with much fanfare and no real gripes that I could see.

Supposing we could enchant arrows with the power of a thousand moons so that one lucky shot, maybe 1/3 would deal an instant K/O, we would all go back to mining for ingots.

Oh, with 100 dex bandages heal in just under 10 seconds.

Ok, I am doing it wrong. There is indeed a "sweet spot" that is 2 tiles away as well as 3 tiles away. My GM bow was hitting much more frequently, hitting in the high teens and low twentys, and did indeed overcome a 15 second bandage loop with relative ease and is about on par with the other weapon skills. I even tried a Heavy X-Bow and got lucky rolls and three hit the toon before even a bandage could finish!

I then repeated my earlier experiment and stood right next to my dummy and missed a LOT more and only hit for around 9-13 just like I did at maximum range.

I... Was... Wrong... ^_^

Archery isnt as bad as I originally thought.

@Alice I wasnt asking for Chris or anyone to tweak the game to suit my playstyle, and Im sorry if it came across as that way. I was really trying to be objective and compare it with the other weaponskills in the game, which at the time I thought did WAY more DPS and had specials.

You're right! Other weapon skills miss 100% of the time at any range greater than 1!

Archery is OP!


/wrists

Um. No. Enchant Arrows with the Power of a Thousand Moons. Or I quit, again.

Every arrow you shoot, should fold your cloth for you.

tamer with 100 dex + archery + nightmare = good times

jus sayin

Like head from a meat grinder good.

Building a toon with archery is like telling your team "I just never want to be a contributing member of this team, ever". The problem is, a rework of archery could very easily change the meta as it will allow people to more easily do damage from a distance, and let's remember that that is what makes archery at all viable now; sure you don't deal a lot of damage, but you can stay away from your opponent (making fighting other dexxers decent when you're on the move and avoiding their attacks).

So just like mages, except with terrible variable hit chances instead of absolute accuracy within range.

But also without exhausting a finite source of power (mana) and without having to stop in place to do damage, yes.