Gumps and idoc timers

In order to break up automated play, I propose afk gumps be added to reg buying to curb afk/recall buying/banking of regs and an afk gump be added to using item id on house signs to prevent people from running bots to screenshot log house statuses (and prevent advanced scripts such as auto accept rez from guildmates so the bots can continue to run after the owner is afk or gone)


Both instances involve profiting from afk play, and I believe the automation should be greatly limited (mostly to skill gain)


I also propose idoc changes to make the houses fall on a random timer between 8-48 hours to encourage actually having to manually click the signs and at keyboard play.


Thanks

Yes, absolutely

I'm kind of surprised reg buying isn't already subject to the afk gump such as collecting bods and stuff are. I agree with the random idoc timer, but would that start as soon as it hit idoc, or start after the standard idoc time? (after the 17.5 or whatever hours it turns from greatly to idoc). That would probably give more people a shot at idoc loot, giving a longer window instead of a small window that will fall like clockwork.

The problem is, running by a house and clicking a sign gives you a gump, while macroing a sign 100% afk for over the entire course of the houses decay, is acceptable and unpunished.

If you get a house going from somewhat to fairly, you know when it goes idoc.
If you get the time a house goes from fairly to greatly, you know when it goes idoc.
Etc.

Easy to abuse. I actually like that UoF made all IDOCS public by announcing to everyone in town by a stone you could click or something like that.
To really make it fair, you could make all items in a house be deleted when it decays. Would be great for item rarity, and not reward people who do nothing but sit watching houses decay.

People can argue that idocs bring in a pvp section, but it really doesnt. It just ends up being the group with the most people controlling it and getting everything, and no one wanting to fight them or waste time watching houses idoc. Maybe it will be different on this server? LOLOLOLOL



The biggest thing is making it illegal to afk a sign like that, or fix it the other way, and make it so clicking a sign doesnt give you a gump. Needs to flow. Lacking in the flow department. Woof.

PS I voted wrong now that I see the timers randomized. =(

I support this but I think the IDOC timer should stay the same. If people are doing IDOCS attended it's a huge time demand and I think should stay at ±17hrs.

edit: Random timer would be cool too but I think the range should be narrowed significantly.

edit 2: I'm not a fan of having the items decay when a house falls. It's a huge thrill and *should* be good way and level playing field for players to grab some items. The complaint here seems to be that you can't compete with the idoc guilds. I don't believe their livelihood should be taken away, but I'm all for nerfing the afking to make it more accessible to people who play the old fashioned way.

Getting trashed at idocs shadowjack? lol

Listen, why the heck are you trying to change the game. There is a literal guide on how to do what these guys do. They play by the same mechanics that we do. The difference is they grouped up, organized, and put in a ton of time (ie followed the guide).
For some reason, instead of just following the guide, you want to change the mechanics of the game.

The gump idea is whatever, gump it, don't gump it, it doesn't matter. You think they won't still run the show around here even if they have to manually click signs?

They are bigger and better then you. That is it. The solution ultimately will have to be FORCE. Kill their bots, kill the people rezzing the bots, kill kill kill. You win that game, you get the timers, you get the loot. It sounds to me like your losing that game, and instead of stepping up you are trying to figure out how the mechanics could change to better support a single player that puts in little effort. This is a mmorpg, go make friends and compete. (There is no guide on the making friends part)


TLDR: Gump or no gump= doesn't make a difference , do it if it pleases you
idoc timer change and breaking razor more to prevent advanced macros= bad idea

I cracked up one time seeing Gideon selling a house on the forums with a great sales pitch like a seasoned realtor, the house looking all pristine and so on.... and remembering the total carnage the night before on that very spot: bodies strewn everywhere, the ground soaked with the blood of vets and noobs alike, seeing Bart run by my ghost and mow down a naked straggler who happened to snatch something, I couldn't help but laugh and think "Hah... I died there!" (I went afk hidden having to take a piss, then came back to see the houses had fallen, grey screen, dead horse, people running around in terror ) Good times, good times

.

Also to call a macro that can auto-accept rez and then use item id on a static sign an "advanced script" is crazy. That is a ridiculously simple macro.

I don't IDOC anymore. When I did, it was stupid easy to do it. And I never was part of the IDOC crew. I did it waaaay before they got organized.

Regardless, the principle behind AFK gumps is to prevent you from getting a benefit in exchange for nothing (or very little) while afk. Such as getting ore from a mountain, or logs from a tree. I still think the fishing one is a little extreme as the "benefit" you would get from afk fishing would be fishsteaks and a little leather at best.

When you "afk" buy regs, you are using up gold in exchange for them. There is no "gifting" involved. It is a normal transaction, and a fair gold sink.

For IDOCs, it's pretty much the same principle. IDing a house sign gets you a time. You then have to: figure out when it's going to fall, clear your schedule IRL to be able to attend, attend when the house falls, and profit. There is nothing AFK when the items are picked up. Plus, it is FREE for anyone to do it.

I understand casual players do not like how a small group of people can concentrate so much wealth for "little work" from IDOCs. The thing is, that those people put many hours to be able to do what they do, and have a flexibility in RL schedules that allows them to do it. Is it fair? No. But neither is being born in a third world country being ravaged by civil war. What are you going to do about it? You understand your circumstance, and either accept it, adapt to it, or effect change to get out of it. You don't try to affect other people's rights because you "can't have them". That is communism, and we all know how THAT turned out! This game allows you to have them, and the kind people here have even published a detailed guide of HOW to have them. It is up to each of us to decide wether we want to "go get them", or accept our reality.

I for one accept that I have to work 10-12hr days, and have a wife and 3 kids to attend to. I accept my reality that I cannot IDOC, and that is a good thing.

Announce all IDOCs and Champ Spawns through the UOR bot, just like Duels and T-Maps are done. The current guilds will be relieved of all the botting/scheduling, and can focus on improving as a PVP group in order to wipe out the competition.

Because the game is only about PvP, right?

Most of the objections in this thread are in the vein of either:

(a) you suck, or
(b) the rules are the same for everyone so why should they change?

Regarding (b), it could be used as an argument against literally anything, including things like our mining gumps, so I don't particularly find that compelling personally.

That is not 'nothing', nor 'very little' in my eyes. In fact it's the majority from my perspective.

Having the time of fall is obviously an enormous efficiency gain. And when you have the time, you don't need a big scary pvp group at all. In the few IDOC's I was present for and "working alone", I'm fairly confident I got at least 1/Nth as much loot of any big group, where N is the size of their group. However, because I didn't AFK bot the signs, I never had the fall time of IDOCs and thus it wasn't worth my while to go after a slice of the droppings.

Giving out the time doesn't change the power dynamic of an IDOC fall; a big group could still control most of the earnings if they wanted to. It just eliminates the benefit they may have gotten from setting up a Razor program while they went to work or went to sleep.

I dont think hes saying the games only about pvp, but there is pvp involved at idocs, and it would happen more if everyone knows the time publicly
This is not a trammel option, more pvp in fel is in no way trammel.

If anything it just allows people like you and myself, who have very busy lives, the possibility to attend.
Regardless if you have the time to run around the world, and click every single house sign, or not.

Ding ding ding. You want to be able to IDOC even though you haven't invested the time.


The below statements have been cherry picked from Chris's posts here but I think they apply here.




You cannot develop mechanics based on the fear and hatred of other players as a basis to remove a system.
You cannot develop mechanics to punish players who work hard to accomplish a goal. Because other players are envious of the end result of the hard work.

Renaissance is a server where earning nice rewards is coupled with putting in the effort.

Is the argument here really that we stop rewarding hard work?

This is the same situation that everyone was so dissatisfied with on our previous server. Anytime a group of players get together and work together at a goal, be it pvp, house decays, champion spawns. The accusations come out of the woodwork that they are dirty rotten cheaters and they should be removed or the mechanics should be changed to punish them for having friends, being organized.

And again, I am all for an afk gump on the item id bots. It makes no difference, they will run the show. But the premise that the work behind controlling the idoc scene should be negated and made public for everyone, even though they haven't worked for it? Silly.

Not saying this is cheating, and no one is saying punish anyone here. The clear point is level the playing field. Make it fair and reward everyone on the server equally with the chance to get free loot from someone elses house.

Im in no way debating that I want to IDOC, its absurdly profitable. My issue is that its LARGELY isolated. Its like doing a tmap, you have 200 spots where you could be doing a level 1-6. Whos going to check them all for pvp? NOT A SINGLE PERSON.

Thats my point.

You do a little work(afk macro is considered very little work) that involves ZERO risk, until the second it falls. The common tactic is, you then bring in as many people as you can, and clean up. Why people think this means they are good pvpers, or somehow run the shard, is beyond me.

Especially when you never see any of those people doing champs...or farming anything at all...because they make way more, macroing on a sign carrying nothing, and preparing for isolated pvp in a non hot spot area.

Happy to discuss more!

(oops-need to repost this)

It is either a lot of work, or a little work. If you are saying that it only takes a little work to get timers, then wtf are we even talking about here. Obviously this is not the case, or you would see tons of average joe's competing.
No, its a ton of work. So much work that the barrier for entry is high and most people don't even try. So some players put in a ton of work and are rewarded. You want to make mechanics changes that make that a little work.
You can't have it both ways.