Tracking

One thing I noticed here about tracking is that it doesn't put the text of the cardinal location of the trackee above your character's head. It just has a little arrow in the corner of the screen. And that arrow is hard to see if you have anything in the game screen (journal, skill list, paperdoll, etc).

I thought during UOR you still got the text above your head showing where the trackee was. If so, it would be a big improvement (IMO) to revert to that.

While I used to like the text message indicating the targets direction, I'm fairly certain that is from prior to Renaissance era mechanics.
The arrow is actually far more functional and, albeit slightly laggy on updating sometimes, still preferred in my opinion.

I'm not sure what resolution you're running but with a 1280x1024 display resolution you should have plenty of black space around the 800x600 gameplay window for all your open items. I personally stretch the gameplay window to 924x700, and still have sufficient room for all my needed items open, without blocking the gameplay window. I'm really particular about anything being in the gameplay window space.

When I play on a smaller screen, I encounter the same difficulty but it's tolerable given the utility of the arrow. Moving the arrow farther away from edge of the game window would help user with smaller screens, but would hinder those with larger screens as they would have a less reliable indication of the distance to the target. About the only improvement I could think of would be to have the arrow appear on top of any other game elements, but this too is problematic as the arrow might obscure your backpack or paperdoll and I'm not sure if it's even possible.

The arrow actually works pretty good. Here's a few things you can do to make the best use of your screen real estate:
minimize your paperdoll --this way you just have a single button on screen or do away with the paperdoll entirely and remember the shortcut alt-P
put your spell icons and skill buttons about half a button away from the edge of the game window--this will allow space for the tracking arrow to show
run the game in a maximized window
in Windows, change the size of the title bar (top)
in Windows, autohide the menu bar (bottom)

I could find no evidence of it becoming an arrow prior to UOR, ergo it must have been text-based at the beginning of UOR until some point during UOR.

What do you mean about the arrow being more functional? If it was located nearer to your character (center of the screen), I think it would work much better. As of now, with it on the edge, it's basically: "Check direction. Go around tree I just ran into. Check direction. Go around tree I just ran into". Can't really follow it with peripheral vision and keep an eye on terrain as you run.

Maybe given that it was both text-based and arrow-based during the UOR era, have both?

I use tracking in two ways, short range (30 Tracking) or GM, for long range. In the middle of a fight, when someone's running, that 30 is critical. The arrow doesn't always update as fast as we can run and I occasionally think the player may have stopped/invis/hid, however by the time I catch up to the stalled arrow, it reverts to screen edge if they are still on the run, or stays put if they really did hide.

I do kind of miss the text and if we could have both, or a toggle, that would be great. If I have to choose between the two, I do prefer the arrow now that I've become accustomed to it.

Text based tracking please!

The arrow is an eyesore, and tracking was only ever used in UOR to exploit a flaw in the system that let you track anyone with 20.1 skill. Tracking currently works like so, your skill determines a radius around your player which you can search. Once you select a target in that radius, the arrow points you right to them. If the target then leaves the radius that the skill level permits, the arrow still tracks, which I think is rather counter intuitive.

This problem exists with text-based tracking as well, but it's not as significant of an issue, since a player must be competent at reading the directions and triangulating target location. I think this adds a bit of "required skill" to actually using the skill, and ultimately, that is what makes UO so great, skill level matters slightly, but generally, everyone is on an even playing field.

Will try to respond to a few points inline.

One thing I'll mention, which I think I have in IRC, but for Forum posterity-ness, is that the tracking results gump should be expanded beyond the 12 or 16 limit as it stands right now.

Another is that if you're tracking something, and then decide to track something new, you get the "You have lost your quarry" message when you begin tracking the new something. Which is confusing (though accurate to what's happening). For clarity, I'd suggest losing the thing you're tracking (And getting the message) when you first activate the skill the second time.

For the arrow versus text... I would definitely suggest adding the text if possible. The arrows are nice if you have a particular screen setup, but for myself with a small not-so-elite laptop screen, it's hard to fit my paperdoll, backpack, radar map, etc., onto the screen without overlapping the corners of the play area. So the arrow is really hard to see. Hopefully the code for this exists somewhere on the web to make it easy to implement.

I can't speak to the sea monster stuff since I don't fish, but the land monster stuff makes sense.

Two things you don't mention:
- how tracking skill lessens over distance (implied by "their chances of detecting them would drop dramatically the farther away they are").
- how those "modified skill values" are compared. I.E., in your example, what happens with a tracker with modified skill value of 66.6 versus a prey with modified skill value of 50?

To be candid, these customizations are a bit of a nerf for the Tracking skill. It's a pretty niche skill to begin with, and adding Detect Hidden as something that can potentially be needed to ensure its effectiveness is eating up a lot of the 700 skill points. I.E. a detective should now have GM Forensics, Tracking, and Detect Hidden, leaving them only 400 skill points to actually "apprehend" a thief they find.

The other issue I'd have is that it's really hard to follow these formulas and have a sense - without whipping out a calculator - of your chances of finding a given person. I have a similar complaint about the archery formula.

I think the most reasonable way to have Detect Hidden, Hiding, and Stealth, interact with Tracking, is to do something like this:

100 Tracking always finds 100 Hiding.
100 Tracking + 100 Detect Hidden always finds 100 Hiding + 100 Stealth.
100 Tracking does not always find 100 Hiding + 100 Stealth.

That way you preserve the classic functionality of tracking in *most* instances, while adding a bonus for GM Stealth and a countermeasure being available to the tracker. So there is still a small benefit to having Detect Hidden as well, but it's far from required.

As for a formula to make this happen, I'd suggest perhaps:

Code:

Chance to track = [Tracking + Detect] - [Hiding + Stealth - 100]

Scenarios and their resulting chance-to-track:
GM Tracker looking for a hidden AFK player in a house (0 Hiding): 100% chance
GM Tracker looking for a hidden AFK player in a dungeon (100 Hiding): 100% chance
GM Tracker looking for a GM thief (Hiding+Stealth): 0% chance
GM Tracker + Detect looking for a GM thief (Hiding + Stealth): 100% chance
15.0 displayed Tracker (0 real skill) looking for a GM Hider onscreen: 15% chance
15.0 displayed Tracker (0 real skill) looking for a 6.0 to 21.0 displayed Hider (0 real skill) onscreen (i.e househide or Invisibility spell): near 100% chance

the main thing that is breaking my balls with tracking/detect hidden, is that if you track someone, walk up next to them, reveal them with detect hidden, they can then hide right away, You then have to wait 10 secs to reveal them again, but then can still re-hide right away... in an infinite loop.

I personnally think that this should not be possible (similar to when you are "in combat", hiding is impossible) or that there should be some kind of test made (ie if you are being tracked, your hiding/stealth is tested against tracking/detect hidden of your tracker, maybe factoring in the distance)?

I can agree with this. (though note that 'fixing' this would likely benefit thieves the most)

Detect Hidden will also 'miss' quite often. Is this intended?


As far as the numbers go, I've been very happy with the way Tracking works here and how the detection formulas work. Against easy targets, you can track them for miles. Against difficult targets, you've got to be a lot closer. Tracking 'feels' good here, IMO.

On the arrow vs. text debate, absolutely do not take away the arrow. If putting text into the game is desired, go for it, but the arrow stays. UO is in kind of a strange place these days - the game is obviously ancient by modern standards. I play because the game mechanics are so unique and fun. It's not an experience you can get in MMOs anymore. While it has nostalgic charm, the archaic UI is absolutely something I can do without. Anything that helps elevate the UI out of 1997, I'm generally for.

Dalavar, Tracking was Over Powered previously and the 'nerf' is appropriate to put some variance in the skill. Not "I can see everything for 100 tiles in any direction, regardless of any other factor". That was silly.

This. Also, the combination of Forensics and Detect Hidden. If I want to check a thief I've tracked, as long as they are paying attention, I can never get my Forensics check done. I Detect Hidden, reveal them, and have to wait 10s to Forensics, at which point they've hidden again and the cycle continues. If I've tracked someone and still have them on Tracking and Detect Hidden, they should not be able to hide again %100 standing 2 effing tiles away from my tracking/DH char.

Also agree with Basoosh as much as I liked the text on screen previously, please don't take away my arrow.

Huh? The other factor is having GM Tracking. I.E. occupying 1 of your 7 skills with the expressed intent to have the ability to the ability to see everything for 100 tiles.

So anyone who's put 100 points into Hiding or worse still, 200 points into Hiding/Stealth is fucked, just because you spent 100 on Tracking?
I don't care to evaluate all those numbers in that gasbag post you made earlier in formulation of my opinion that the adjustment was appropriate.

Nothing should be infallible or without countermeasures. I can't hit you %100 of the time if you have a GM Melee skill so why should I be able to Track %100 someone with Hiding skill?

If you read the post, you'd realize you've created a bit of a straw man. Why bother arguing if you don't even read what I wrote?

Spoiler alert: most of my posts, prior and future, will have numbers.

FWIW, and maybe this is obvious to those who did read my post, but I do think that Tracking should dominate Hiding. And that Hiding+Stealth should dominate Tracking. And that Tracking+Detect should dominate Hiding+Stealth.

Hiding and Stealth have plenty of their own uses in a number of aspects of the game. Tracking is kind of a one-trick pony. Detect Hidden, too, is a relatively useless skill.

So yes, I think 100 points in Tracking to gain its primary benefit, should dominate 100 points in Hiding with respect to its, I dunno, third or fourth most common or important use.

I agree with Dalavar. Currently tracking against players is horribad. I put some points on my dexxer in hopes of being able to track PK's who run and hide, but even when standing next to them it's a 50-50 shot (or less, I don't know the math), so I know he's there, but I can't track him...it's pretty rediculous. I only have like 30 points, and I agree that I should not be able to track someone 5 screen away, but I should be able to track him if he's next to me!!

I don't know how much you guys are fielding this shit, but Tracking is the bees knees as they say. Even post patch, I have had great success with Tracking, including Tracking with Detect Hidden.

Hunting PKs and other combatants with 30 Tracking on my PvP guys, I have not had a problem getting a line on them and keeping it in the chase. I know they've Recalled out when 'You've lost your quarry' pops up. When I'm hunting thieves with my Track/DH character, I know that I should run Tracking 3-4 times to be relatively certain they are not hiding in range.

Not sure where the problem is, but all of this seems to be working tits. The only detriment is the time-delay on Forensic Eval/Detect Hidden because the hider can immediately hide again. I think perhaps a nerf to Hiding, in the event of a successful DH on that character might benefit the situation. For example, if I DH you and you're revealed, you should not be able to hide again without breaking line of sight/range.

In regards to your response Dalavar, I do not think any skill should 'dominate' the other. They should all have a fair shot vs each other. Tracking someone with no hiding skill should dominate, not someone who's put just as much effort into training as you have (ie; standing there with a fucking Use Skill/10s Pause macro running for three days).

Balance = Nothing dominates and everything has a counter.

/end

Agreed fully.

I guess under this philosophy, I'd argue that I see Tracking as the counter to Hiding (and Stealth as the counter to Tracking, and Detect Hidden as the counter to Stealth).