Big announcement from MiD

@RavenMagi

Well well well.

Your leadership pmed PS to tell them that youd grief them and all of their public events/scrolls after tunefull showed up at an IDOC,(didn't fight, rezzed whoever randomly he saw). I know PS has cut back on alot of their public events after that.... but yes, THAT is extreme. By every measure. We don't go and message TnT and T*N that we're gana crash everything they do, and ruin their public events because a tnt member shows up at an IDOC.


I never said pwn was perfect, but if your gana own up to your mistakes, own up to them. you guys pushed it WAY further than we did. I think I even heard BoW even saying there were pms to BoW new recruits to pay them to leak stuff...

I think that was addressed when I said very clearly that as a group we made some decisions on policies that were, in hindsight, not very well thought out. Not really sure what more there is to say about that. I didn't dodge responsibility, or make excuses. And I will repeat that I apologize for my part in that. It wasnt the right approach.

I am aware that there are some people out there that might just refuse to move on, and will want to keep old drama alive. Ultimately the choice is yours on who you want to be in all of this. Maybe it's better to take those kinds of things to PMs though, so that the maturity level that was intended here can remain intact. I do appreciate that you recognize it.

Hello all,

A couple points I'd like to address:

I made no claim to an absolute and complete separation of the two guilds. Nor, to my understanding, is there such a separation between many of the guilds brought up in this thread, I understand there is crossover between PS and PwN and Iderp (not to mention many other prominent guilds). If fact if you go to my original post you'll see I made the clear distinction been players and individual toons:

It has been suggested I was asking for a 'free ride' for people sporting this new tag. Also not the case, almost word for word:

Further, I thought I was forthright that there had been past transgressions on the part of MiD alluding to some past unfortunate dramas as well as expanding PvP activities. Notwithstanding that I specifically asked for this not to be a thread to rehash old battles that does not seem to have been enough, so here we go. Mea Culpa; MiD has, at times perpetrated and participated in some pretty shitty behaviour, no excuses given. It adversely affected players who had done nothing wrong and didn't deserve it. On MiD's behalf and mine I apologize for that. I will add however that I dispute some of the examples given and that many of the other guilds represented in this discussion have acted no better. AGAIN - I ask that if you are looking for a thread to try and compare who has acted the greater fool that you start your own, I'm sure you'll find a willing audience. That is not the purpose here.

Some in their comments seem to suggest that no matter the intentions or actions of any new guild associated with MiD that they will persist in their abuses. That's entirely your choice and within your abilities and I regret that you are unwilling to try and move past old grievances--so be it. You are not the intended audience of my announcement.

To others who are willing to entertain the possibility that the circle of rivalries can be contained I thank you for the opportunity to prove it to you with actions over the coming weeks and months.

IDOC's and PvP will always be a part of this shard, as it should be! There is no harm or transgression in showing up to an IDOC and battling it out with the others who are there for the same purpose. And great rivalries among powerful guilds is great content for willing participants! Problems can arise when those involved (again, on both sides here) extend that to other areas of endevour. In my view, it crosses the line when, mere associations with people involved form the justification for making the game nigh unplayable for those individuals. It is very difficult to separate individuals from their guild tags, and some people can be forgiven for casting a wide net in their retaliations for real or perceived slights. That is the heart of why we are creating this new tag.

I could have, with relative ease, simply started a new guild with toons unfamiliar to the community but it is my hope that neither we, nor others, will be unfairly targeted for their associations. It seems clear that my name, as a founder and leader of MiD, provokes a reaction from some and to those I say, by all means if you are unwilling to accept my olive branch here are my main toons in PvM (see below), I have nothing to hide and I will keep my reflect up. At the same time please stop greifing other players who you have no reason to hate other than their PvM tag (not making the same request for the MiD tag). There have been examples of players (uninvolved in the PvP/IDOC scene) who have flat out left this server to go to another UO shard because of these actions - whatever your personal feelings for me or even MiD, you can't believe that is good for the shard.

Your dragons are ugly bud. The only other ugly thing in this thread is the negativity. As an ambassador of positive forum conduct on this server, I would cordially invite you all you put away your hatred of those filthy scumbags at MiD and lets embrace PvM. Lets all be friends.


Looking forward to seeing you killing mobs instead of killing me.

Big shout out to @medas @RavenMagi & the PwN Crew that invited me to join your champ this evening. It was great to play with some new friendly faces and i look forward to the next time.

Also a shout out to @Ron Jeremy The Infamous Cookie Monster, for the drive by healing instead of ebolts when you caught me cleaning up the leftover spawn.

What would prevent you guys from having characters in both guilds and enjoying the benefits of both?

If you want to PvP, you are in MiD.

If you want to PvM you are in PvM.

I see a fundamental problem here. Nobody will ever farm in MiD period, and MiD people will just have their pvm chars in PvM.

The system is broken imo.

I applaud what you guys are doing, and I hope you succeed but I am very skeptical.

I cannot see how you can separate things, you are all friends and friends help each other. Changing a character's tag takes 2 seconds, you can purchase name change deeds or you can remove it altogether.

If you look at real life examples, big transformation changes indeed do happen. However, there is almost always a change of leadership, you can google a million case studies on this.

If you have the same leadership and same people with the same habits for years: change is very hard. I also know a lot of your previous behavior was looked down upon, its hard to change good behavior let alone bad. Prove me wrong, but I hope you guys aren't simply putting lipstick on a pig.

Will your guild hue be 43?

I covered this in my post as well.

Some peeps will likely have chars in PvM for those types of activities, and then others that they use for idoc.

I will say the same thing I did a few posts back, it's no different from what your own crew does with PS and other affiliations. You have Leopold that has characters he uses in PS, and then characters that he will show up to an idoc on. Labeler has a triple box he uses to champ, and a triple box he uses to idoc. The list goes on, and you already know all the names that crossover between guilds on your side. Many players that have PS characters also have reds or others that fight over idocs. Do you seek them out and remove them? Isnt this question basically along the same lines as the very policy we are apologizing for? Grouping an entire guild together and waging war on them because of the affiliations of just a few players?

Why now? Why not now? Your own goals and methods have changed in the last 12-18 months, have they not? At one time you constantly bashed tamers, now it's what you use the most at idoc fights (which is fine btw, not pointing this out as a negative, just a shift in policy). You also used to say that you were only interested in idocing for pvp, but again, that has obviously changed as well (also, not a negative thing, just a shift in mindset). Its all good. Why does anything happen when it does? Our roster changes, peeps stop playing, and suddenly there is a group that no longer looks as it did. If there are more peeps that are pvm focused than pvp or idoc, you adjust. I personally enjoy both. I have stepped WAY back from the idoc thing, because frankly it's too much time and drama. I did it a long time. I dont have the same interest that I used to. No longer want a job within a game. Takes away the fun of UO.

As far as the CoD and the orange robes, I STILL believe that that was a good thing. Go back and read the post about it. It made it very clear that we would still at that time be fighting the peeps that we were fighting every day. It was a gesture to everybody else that didnt want to get PKd or deal with the crossfire. I still cant understand why people find fault in an offer from an entire guild to show us that you dont want to get pkd, and we wont. I didnt see any other guilds making that offer.

Anyway, as I said earlier, I understand that there are going to be people that operate on so much hate that they will maybe never see through another lens. That's your choice.

Just as was initially stated, this is a large and diverse group, and there will be PvM only peeps, idoc only peeps, and peeps that have chars in both. If you want to make it a witch hunt, do what you feel is the right thing to do. I suppose the community will ultimately decide whether it's right or wrong, just as they did with some of our actions and policies.

PS: A group restructures, apologizes for some bad policy, and plays UO. That leaves you skeptical (understandable), but what is YOUR ultimate goal? Is it as simple as "we just wanna grief certain people forever, who are they!?". Cause that's definitely what it seems like. What is YOUR intention? And is that the right approach for YOU to take?

WHO CARES?

Very interesting post. What it really means? I have no clue. I guess they themselves know what it really means.

Words are pretty things, that can be twisted into ugly very easily. So my belief is that Actions speak louder than words. As Father Christmas I have had plenty of fine interactions with both sides of this server war, and i will admit that on unknown toons i have had some unpleasant ones as well. I hope that the move to PvM works well for you guys and that the current mood feelings of the server is allowed to change.
One small observation from a Neutral Bystander, Declaring war Publicly on a fair proportion of the server is bound to have a blow back and i think this is what we are seeing currently.
Anyway enough unpleasantness I hope that this will all be put to bed, and a reminder that All are welcome to participate in the Secret Santa event come the Holiday Season. Hell I even welcome @Uncle Donnie to attempt to redeem himself after two years of stiffs. MiD, BoW, PvM, PWN, PS, Iderp, "A" the Chickens whoever you are you are ALL welcome to take part.

Our goals have shifted to actively defend groups from the targeting war MiD choose to deploy on innocent PVMers these last few months. If this is a way of calling off that war, I'm happy to hear.

However, the timing of these olive branches comes at a time where it only benefits your team.

Where was this epiphany when innocent blood was being slaughtered?

Their actions of the past speak volumes that this statement is true!!! ^^^^

Since I was mentioned a few posts above, I guess I'll say something about this.

TL;DR: this is a bunch of my own opinions (possibly boring and useless to read) and nothing official about how P'S or PwN will react to this announcement.

Yes, I do consider my "identity" on this shard as both P'S and PwN. And I have shown up at many IDOCs (and likely will do so in the future as time allows) because I enjoy playing with BoW and feel that my contributions are worthwhile there. Many times it has been suggested that there was something improper about people like me being in both P'S and showing up to fight with BoW (or even IDERP) at IDOCs. People even once complained that there were some non-PS alts of players who had toons in P'S in factions. We're not talking PKs here, we are talking orange vs. orange PvP, which is about as wholesome as you can get in Felucca! I'm not sure where this idea came from that people who are in P'S are not allowed to participate in other aspects of the game. To quote Lord Krake himself "Thief and PK builds are just fine, you simply cannot have one in P'S". Multiple times people in MiD have made the same idiotic statements that we heard from SoF, about "hiding behind a new player guild." To date nobody has ever explained what they mean by that, or what I am supposedly being "shielded" from by P'S.
As far as I know, the only times I have actually ever PKd someone on this shard is with a specific purpose. PKing random people, while a legitimate Felucca playstyle, is just something that doesn't appeal AT ALL to me. I've accidentally scouted MiD champs and farming sessions in dungeons while on a P'S toon. I did not call it out publicly or in PwN/BoW chat, but just left or even joined them.

Now about this new PvM guild. There were/are many people in MiD that I think are great guys and I enjoy playing with them. For example, Blacklow showed up uninvited to a private PwN champ that I myself started. We briefly discussed it and decided to let him champ with us. We certainly had other options available to us had we not wanted him around. There are also a very select few that I would prefer to never associate/play with in any situation based on past discussions and in-game actions, some dating back before I even joined UOR. Last time I made an attempt to reconcile my personal differences with MiD as a group (Halloween night 2019) it did not go very well. Go read it in Discord if you are curious. I am NOT speaking on behalf of P'S, PwN or even BoW. I know there are ongoing discussions about the benefits/timing/motivations/etc. of these changes, and I am willing to keep an open mind and listen to both what MiD/PvM has to say, and what people in the groups I roll with have to say. I am mainly a PvM guy and I enjoy champing, including public champs that go off without a hitch. If Telamon suddenly switched on Trammel for the entire shard, I would still enjoy playing here (although I admit it would probably get a bit dull without at least some drama). I also have friends and guild mates who primarily want PvP, so I don't want them to become bored out of their minds and quit playing.

Other than joking around I stay out of the middle of these sorts of threads but I find it necessary to post my thoughts on this as it goes against all the UO grain in me.

You want to play alts and be an aggressor then switch to this group and have diplomatic immunity against all negative actions.




What you're asking is that you get your cake and eat it too.





No player or guild on this server (not even PS) has ever enjoyed what you are asking for.




I was told a while back I crashed someone's better half that was playing the game. While I absolutely completely admire that and wish my better half played too this is not Farmville or Candy crush, its UO. At this point I'm still on the sidelines watching...

You PVM guys should also consider that the last time a guild did this it was CPU and they turned into SOF.

That worked out well for no one.
Especially SOF.

I like that no ones asking the question that they actually want too though, been waiting for it, no ones asked so I’ll do it.

Which group is Fatty Mike involved in?