Big announcement from MiD

Thank you @Leopold I appreciate you bringing your voice to this conversation.

Before anybody gets any ideas to the contrary from what I am about to say let me be very clear. I am not saying PvM is P'S or intends to follow all of their policies or objectives.

That said the way Leopold describes things there are some parallels here; P'S is to PwN what PvM is to MiD. It has been said many times by many players (including myself and others at MiD - many of whom are now PvM) that a policy of targeting P'S for the sole reason of there being individuals with alts in both groups is wholly inappropriate. I suggest the same applies here. We have no obligation to anyone to publish who all our players are; no guild would ever do that, it is silly request. PwN in particular prided themselves on their secrecy for many years.

I will say this, there are many in MiD who are unwilling to play by the rules we set down for PvM and so are not welcome to have PvM toons. It is not an open door policy for people to hide behind the tag. When @Blacklow (PvM) came upon PwN champing yesterday he had the option of calling it out to MiD - but as we discussed internally at length before we started the guild; that is not going to happen with PvM--we are by no means an extension of MiD or their scouts. Instead, he asked to join in and it worked out. Great example of the potential here and I thank all involved for allowing it to happen. We also hosted a public champ yesterday (thank you @AOٌ for spearheading) and the skull was turned over by a non-PvM (and non-MiD) member. Another fantastic example of the potential.

So far so good but I am not making any claims to perfection here, there will inevitably be missteps but they will be dealt with. If anyone is using the PvM tag contrary to the way it is intended they will be dismissed - I have made this abundantly clear to all members.

Also I have no idea how many times I need to say this so perhaps I should just start adding it to my signature, it would be easier:

If you can't or don't want to read there is little I can do about that. We expect to encounter PKs. The one and only ask we are making of the server is to judge us based on the actions of our guild, not based on the actions of others. If your UO game is to go out and kill every player farming gold, I would not expect you to overlook PvM (or P'S or any other guild). If your UO game is to

my suggestion is that you should not be at odds with PvM. (Apologies to Chase if I over simplified his message, but I was glad to hear we may have some common ground.)

Others have pointed to failed examples of other guilds and even corporations; this is a false equivalence. Merely because they failed does not mean we will, and certainly doesn't mean we don't have the right to try. Do I need to drag out examples of failures followed by success, hardly seems necessiary.

This remains a work in progress, thank you all for the lively discussion. For a third time I am going to ask that this thread not be used to drag up garbage from the past, it is not in dispute and does not need to be the focus here.

Our goal is not outright defend all PvMers but actively defend them against MiDs targeting.

Through that, we've forged relationships with those groups, which excludes them from our attacks. However, I don't see this pass being extended to MiD/C*D/K*P/A/PvM, as they are a direct cause of the environment.

Should members of MiD choose to distance themselves from this war, I suggest making a group that does that. Not one that masquerades as PvMers one moment, and the next jumps on their IDOCers.

It has been made abundantly clear that PvM is not involved with MiD pvp or idoc use, i was also there yesterday in Ice and saw Pwn/BoW and group champing, of which I messaged Leopold to ascertain validity of PvM being allowed to participate, I missed the chanp but blacklow helped ect.
Later we PvM did an oaks and PwN/BoW spent a good 15 minutes making up their mind if they would attack our group, or steal the boss, or leave us be and support the "time tells all and actions speak louder than words" mission.

The non interference from BoW last night was to me a great thing, showed we are above silly guild wars when the individuals are honest of intention. And that non interference is appreciated @BoW

But as far as MiD issue + PvM goes we are disconnected and if there is a member of PVM who is in the idoc or otherwise war of MiD they do not and will not perpetrate a increase of aggression or taking of advantage of a peaceful situation. Fatty has his own goals and has not made mention of intention to be PvM or MiD or his goal, that is his deal and time will show his involvement or lack thereof also.

To my knowledge we of PvM are not expecting any such free pass, i personally expect PvM not to be targetted for the actions of MiD battles past or present; we are not MiD although we are aligned. So in that knowledge we expect PK we expect UO, but there would and could be no excuse for targetting of PvM tag for MiD revenge, Unless and Only Unless a PvM tagged member has started a war or issue, which of would not be supported by PvM members and would be penalized for error.

Thanks for your time!

How is PvM at all a direct cause for your issue? PvM only just started to exist, that is unless you believe all of PvM is just MiD who you have issue with? In which case you would be at fault for aggressions

“I like that no ones asking the question that they actually want too though, been waiting for it, no ones asked so I’ll do it.
Which group is Fatty Mike involved in?”


This is a good question. Was it not this person who declared war on behalf of MiD with numerous guilds here on UO:R and publicly threatened PS’ public scrolls? That action caused a hard stop in Public scrolls from PS for how long now?
these guilds who were threatened responded to this and we accepted your challenge. So you rebrand? And now you expect all to be forgiven and you are given a pass?

Let me be very clear, that I do not speak on behalf of ALL of [Bow] as all of our members provide input into our decisions as a group. However, we have been stepped on MiD members (many of you who are now attempting to hide behind the PvM tag) since we started.
While we struggled among the trenches together to stay afloat, surviving to fight another day... YOUR group attempted publicly deface us and make us out to be villainous grifters. Now you are saying that you were wrong? Is that correct? If not why rebrand?
I see you wolf, and although you roam amongst the sheep... they see you too. It is now upon you to decide, how hungry are you? Will you graze with the others or will you stain your pelt? I seek no immunity from you or anyone else, nor do I fear you wolf. Know this: although you wear this new pelt with pride, it remains as dark and as black as the heart that raps beneath it.
I do not hear your false cry for immunity, nor will the flock when they hear the howl that it WILL become.
You want to play nicely together with your “innocence”? WTS Christmas Scrolls and AMIBs.

Regardless of tags, if players from PvM are showing up at IDOCs with MiD they will be treated as such, considering this is the VERY environment MiD has created. Only now they (MiD) want to backtrack from it when it's not working in their favor?

What a fucking shitty way of apologizing to the mass amount of players that were targeted by MiD in the first place.

A better way about going about this might include:

"Hey guys... we started a war with the server and lost. We're sorry."

OK! here's my 1/2 cent!

Seems legit. It's a game and some tend to forget this. (i aint innocent) by a long shot for sure.
But we all have at least one good thing, Maybe 2.
We all LOVE UO (UO:R)
And i noticed in voice, which i RARELY get into btw, certain people opposing guilds etc the chat was fun and games and laughter.
It's definitely easier to Type fuck you bla bla than get into voice and say it or even (for me at least) think about it. This is 2 things that i have noticed, i haven't talked to everyone here before but EVERYONE i have spoke with has been decent pretty much.. I Try to keep my QQ down in PvP, and crack some dry ass jokes etc etc maybe some sarcasm. and i can get rough as hell sometimes, and i wont lie mainly if i drink i have loose fingertips per say i dunno how many times i felt like an ass for popping off about something, or wak up and be like, Oh shit, did i say that? . Maybe there needs to be once every week or 2 people getting into chat and doing something together as a SHARD! Not just a guild/s if ya catch my drift. get to know someone a bit better and maybe certain ingame relations can start to change that-a-way?
To @Plentimon
I applaud what you're attempting do do. It wouldnt be the same imo without MiD around and i understand why you are trying to split into PvP/PvM. some cant forgive, nor forget. thats something i was really taught because i have felt real hate, it consumes you personally. i like everyone here, i have no PERSONAL hate. anger or anything towards one soul in this game. Might not seem that way sometimes, i can send some crazy shit if someone pisses me of but hey, I'm working on it.
Cheers and Thanks for the heads up!

P.

The timing is just too suspicious for many people.

At your weakest time on the server, after declaring war on everyone, you rebrand. You guys picked the worst time to do this.

However some responses by people have been positive, which shows people are actually quite nice on UOR. I do think UOR it the friendliest UO server so maybe it can work.

Anyways good luck.

Really not Splitting Hairs here @Plentimon when you said
" P'S is to PwN what PvM is to MiD"
PS are a tottaly different entity than Pwn,The only crossover is that about 5% of PS memebers are also in Pwn.

Lol just wanted to clear that up


Mmm ok I have been reading all the posts,And reading a lot of Discord channels.Lol as I imagine a lot of guilds are doing aswell….Even within guild I am seeing different views....Its a lot for everyone to take in...
Here is my take on things after having time to think....

PS has earned a degree of PK immunitiy on this Server for the work before my time,and hopefuly long after...WE are known for just wanting to help new and old players alike...All we want is whats best for the server and its players,and for people to have a enjoyable time..
WE follow our Rules
WE avoid PvP at all costs
WE have players who are honest and trustworthy
WE have players who spend hours on quests/events
WE Have players who just spend all there time/gold doing things for others
WE Have players who spend hours Running Vendors for new players
WE have players who spend hours crafting for vendors don't don't even see
WE have players who forego there own plans to Take new players hunting
WE have players who spend hours in the Beginer dungeons just passing new hunters bags of new player stuff
WE have players who do so much
IF that Buys us "Some"imunity from most of the PvPers I will take that*smiles*

That's how PS works,and we get the rewards/benifits from being this type of guild....

PvM(btw love how this tag has taken off(at first I think was just temp name!))
but yeah its Up to PvM to make there own path and be whatever sort of guild they want to be,With there Own Rules....And it will take a long time to even discover what you guys want....

This is the constriversal bit!
I don't think PvM should get any immunity when there in dungeons or doing champs....Any degree of imunity)lol wish I could spell this word)Should be hard earned...and to be fair doesn't seem like your asking for that anyway...

I would hope that if your attacked and killed in a dungeon PKs offer you the same decency they do to other victims and rezz you and even help you get to your body...Some will never do this,And really that's down to really bad things done by a small % of MiD,but that's your cross to bare...I for one will hunt happily with any PvM in dungeons...And is lots who feel like me so don't let the bad vibes(which are just)dampen your (lol here we go)Enthusiasm(feel I got most of the letter right,just not in the right order!)))

IF your Doing a Public champ spawn i dont think anyone should be attacked doing public events(the recent public champs have been great(all credit to PvM)



However i think Private Champs/Harrowers SHOULD be contested....If PvM see Pwn doing a champ,they should if they have the numbers call in MiD and attack..And same the other way around...I am not a fan of Sharing champs with such big guilds..It puts members of the guilds in akward spots in the long run.......If PvM Spot Pwn doing a champ.And they dont have the numbers,They should just leave..Again same the other way around...

Anyway thats my take on things..Sorry for such a long post!

I believe it may be the perfect time for it, we have made progress that previously was not possible looking forward to our shards future personally

I want to say I agree, private functions like hunts champs ect would be free game to any UOR Pvper to enjoy in their way, i don't think PvM expects any sanctuary status for members on that level. And fully expect PvP interactions on a certain level, but the biggest threat to our goal is old issues (some not so old) to be put upon us and in effect turn into people targetting PvM for other issues not initiated during PvMs time on server, so I do not believe any PvM member should or will tell MiD to attack a private function of any guild or group, enemy or otherwise. That will easily spark the fires of that old fight.. seeing PvM tag and directly after seeing a load of MiD pvpers roll in ect.. so I want to say we are staying away from these interactions and possibilities.

The only requested no PK bit is fully concerning Public events, which serve to benefit the entire shard enemies and all, not to progress profits for either PvM or MiD

I am not part of the war but in extension I am by being tagged; so I will say I avoid any such possible conflicts resulting in growth of the cancer that is negativity. I would only attack if attacked, as a proper PvM should

We really do not want PvM associated with PvP on any level other than defensive.

Good words sir

[Edit to include some times the public champ skull will be stolen or just "lost" so I will have to run private champ to recover a lost skull for the publics benefit, that is of course only if i cannot gather a public effort to gain the skull in a second+ champ. And if this was the case, a recovery champ, the people seen who may attack or have attacked would be notified as soon as we see them that the champ is for public champ skull recovery, and will not be used to Smoke Screen a personal guild gain. In example saying its for public benefit and actually being private benefit, this will not happen by myself.]

Theres no such thing as immunity in felucca, but there is the Virtue of Consideration pending what kind/type/reason the event might be. I mean could very easily have certain events on the Trammel side, but what would that prove when its a felucca shard advertised? Criticism! So. I for one unless asked to, or i know theres gona be no real dmg done would not attack an event. Most seasoned Champers have auto all kill on the sight of red anyhow and 95% of the time it doesnt end well for most attempts unless yer just a run in single out and do the deed real fast but most are so close to each other it doesnt happen that way unless the group doing the Pking is fairly large AND experienced. i mean 70 dragons and mares 1/2 are all kill, you'd be lucky to survive just the fireballs from 2 if you were able to get in that close..
Most of that stuff has passed by and is in the past. New players/Guilds or groups i am positive will always come and try at any event if they get a wild hair up their wazoo... So its really not going to end completely but there will be times of peace for sure i believe..

Keep up the good fight is all i can say, those who despise PKs and PvP? Don't knock it until you tried it, just dont let it get to yer melon

Cheers!

P.

.

Father Christmas sees the good in all hearts, no matter how small it may be, and everyone deserves the chance to redeem themselves.

takes another hit from his bong Ahhh Much better

Im curious about the overlap between the two groups(PvM,MiD), are you guys excluding people from the old group to form the new group? If someone comes to contest your spawn, do you just call in all the exact same people you played with before? If your PK allies come back to the server, (KP, SoF,) whats the chances you guys end up allying up with them?


The comparision between PS and PWN and MiD and PVM is not really the same at all...

Out of all of PS, 5% of PS is PwN.

Out of all PvM, 95% of PvM is MiD.

PS has earned their reputation over the course of years here as a peaceful group that is new player friendly and that throws events. If you see a PS player, 99% of the time he'll help you and be friendly. PS characters don't PK, don't scout for PK groups, etc. If a PS char sees you champing, your probably pretty damn safe. Most of their players have never been involved in any drama, and are pvmers.

You guys have earned your reputation over the course of the years, as has everyone in every other guild on this server. Amongst other things i say about you guys, i regularly say, "most of the MiD guys are alright, its mostly the bad apples in KP that give them a bad name". PVM will have to form their own reputation, and to compare yourself too closely to PS is not something i think you guys have the right to do anytime soon, way to premature.



Your basically saying, since PwN has 5% PS membership( of varying lvls of activity) and everyone treats PS well... PvM (which is 100% MiD) should be treated like PS (since people don't target PS) and you should enjoy similar "social immunity" as Keza, Cronos, Leopold etc.

Maybe you should start negotation with "don't attack us at our public champs please, we're gana collect some skulls and run public harrowers" (your allies and the group you share alot of members with, KP, has attacked our public champs and harrowers regularly,we usually just thank them for coming). Public champ immunity would be a much better place to start a discussion, and one that we can agree with and take seriously. PwN has earned our reputation on this server, we don't hide behind PS, we barely share membership, and all the comparisions between pwn/ps, mid/pvm are very forced/misleading.

If you guys just share all the same members, play with all the same people, and just have a brand new guildtag, not being attacked at your public champs and harrowers is a good deal to start with. Any other new group would be attacked while their working different spawn/farming, and almost no one on this shard but PS(and the naturalist) enjoys immunity from most PKs. Ima give you the chance to start fresh, with your public champs and harrowers safe(from me), but your not gana get PS lvls of immunity on your other activities. I will make an active attempt to get people to lower the hate and relax, I think thats a more realistic "offer".

Just a couple more things to add about people who are in PS but are also in PwN (and/or fight with BoW). I don't expect any special treatment or immunity by anyone for me personally. You know who I am and you might have a score to settle with me from the last IDOC or contested champ. That is fine, I can take my beating. All I ask is that you refrain from taking it out on people that have nothing to do with the war, and it sounds like many here want the same thing.. There have been multiple instances that I know of where someone attacked a random player who was in P'S (or who was thought to be in P'S) and even told that retaliation was the reason. SoF has done this multiple times in the past, before MiD was even around, so I am not trying to target MiD with this statement. I am sure there have been people who looked at MiD as a fun PvM guild, only to join and discover that this conflict was going on, and would have preferred just to go about their PvMing without participating in the drama. Likewise we have people in PwN who want nothing to do with it, and chose to only fight in self defense or defense of a champ/farming session that was attacked by outsiders.

I staked out my position as "no special treatment" a long time ago, and you can go see for yourself when the notorious orange robe discussion was happening in Discord.



For what it's worth, I think it was a good idea to come up with a way to try and avoid targetting players during a shard event who are very averse to PvP or being PKd. I can't claim to know what is going on inside everyone else's mind, but I have no reason to suspect that the intent was not good. But I have to say that perhaps it would have gone over better if some of the more well-liked players had been the ones promoting it:

Your assumption that 100 percent of PvM is MiD is incorrect. Many players in PvM have no MiD chars at all, many are brand new to the server, or have no interest in idocing, so no reason to have chars in MiD. In fact, some peeps that WERE in MiD, but basically not playing anymore because MiD became idoc and they didn't have interest in idoc, left MiD completely. Joining PvM is not automatic membership in MiD, two very different groups with totally different goals and interests. It's already been stated, but I will state again, that there are a couple players with chars in both MiD and PvM. Different guilds with different interests, but for the player that enjoys both activities, of course the doors are open.

I am sure it's already been said but I will say it again, MiD will remain MiD, although with some shifts in policy, such as attacking peeps just because of guild tag. No more of that. Those with interest in idocing will absolutely continue to idoc. That's not changing. That's an activity, not a behavior. MiD is where the idocing will take place. Which is what MiD became anyway, so it just fits. So peeps with interest in idocing can contact members of MiD to discuss that side of things.

PvM has a very different rule set that is strictly enforced. Scouting for reds or calling out peeps location is absolutely not allowed. Pking is not allowed. If a player sees a PvM tag, rest assured that there will be no shenanigans. It has been made abundantly clear that breaking those rules is grounds for removal from PvM.

How the rest of the shard reacts is really up to each individual. We announced the creation of this guild to let existing players know what we were doing, and also to increase awareness to newer players or players that have been searching for a place to get into some of these activities. I am very thankful for all the support from many different members of the community, on both sides of the fence. We have recieved many PMs and a lot of good conversation has taken place. I have actually been surprised at how many new players to the server have reached out as well. I can say that I personally didn't realize how many peeps that are new to UOR are hungry to get involved. It's been really cool to see. It's also been nice to revisit some friendships that sort of faded off over the last year. You know who you are.

For what it's worth, I dont have any chars in PvM, so for those interested in joining PvM, contact Plentimon. Maybe one day I will, who knows.

Here is my last 24 hours as an example of "PvM Immunity"

I hosted the public champ, no PKs came or otherwise grief or pvp, this is the only immunity away from lets call them squads of PK who can ruin the champ.
But directly after the champ my lady and I went farming, had been attacked a few times by PKs I dont recognize, and we got attacked by Anarchy pk guild, which resulted in me killing a red, and gating my loot to a safe place.

So PvM are not expecting or asking to be ignored by PKs on our normal activities, we in fact defend ourselves from what some of you would call "MiD allied PKs" and if Anna had a bounty you all would have seen my turning in of the head for reward, I tried but no gold for me lol.

In all circumstances of myself currently being attacked i have waited for the "enemy" to make the first move and then its time to PvP/defend myself, I do not start the fight, though I may be lucky enough to end it haha.

Overall there is no real request for immunity. There is of course a request to be given the chance to be Different than MiD and a valuable resource to this server

As a PvPer and PK, anyone can see the value a new PvM group brings to the server; however, when this group's only means of defense is to call in hordes of MiD/A, I can assure you, it will be used as a vessel to get PvP.

What keeps groups like PS, CPR, and others off that list is that they offer no resistance to fight back; therefore, attacking them becomes unchallenging.

So with that, we welcome this new PvM group allied with MiD/A with open arms and look forward to the many battles that will be initiated from it.

If you read my above message I dont see where the confusion is, allied sure, safe from no. I kill my PKs personally. If I had called in MiD to fight for me you would have some right, I didn't.