Damage, Armor, and Locations

How does the armor work here?
Does it use the Hit Location System or just a straight up damage VS AR formula?

There's currently a problem with the system. Melee combat is kind of broken.... there's a huge thread about it here http://uorforum.com/threads/why-melee-damage-is-so-low-and-0-damage-hits.6703/

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Some values for plate were changed, but the full investigation and adjustment of AR/Absorption has not been done yet.

Sorry bro, but when I'm smacking liches with a GM repaired silver battleaxe of power and getting damage like 4, 4, 9, 43, 12, 8,8, 5, 5, 3, 26 and being GM swords, tact, ana and 65+ lumber , it's broken. That high/low is ridiculously off and NOT OSI accurate. My meleers NEVER had random high/low like that, ever, in any era.

Combat against monsters uses a completely different AR system than combat against players.

For players, it follows the hit location system that OP and Gideon describe and that we should be used to from back in the day.

For monsters, it tries to replicate that system but (IMO) fails miserably. This system has not to my knowledge been updated for this shard, so it's pure default RunUO that is deficient. In short, monster "armor" pretends that they have very good chest protection, and that you hit there the most, and they have very bad hands and neck protection, and you rarely hit there. Contrasting this to players, who typically have similar protection on all body parts - if you are wearing a plate tunic, you're probably wearing plate gloves (not leather gloves). So that is why combat against armored players will be a bit more consistent than against monsters.

The way to fix monster AR issues would (IMO) be to use their static AR and assume they have that on all body parts (that is, no need to roll for "hit location" on a monster). And then use a formula similar to player armor, where the armor will absorb somewhere between half to all of its AR value in damage per hit. Since monster AR values are big numbers, this might instead be that they absorb 1/6th to 1/3rd of their AR per hit. So a dragon (AR 60) would absorb 10 to 20 damage per hit.

Ah ok. I was referring to PvM. I haven't had any melee PvP here yet. So I guess it's safe to say PvM melee is broken?

We did get a bonus chance to hit (like bumped up to %75) but it would seem some still have issues.

I should add, one quirk of this shard's system of weapon damage rolls is that they all just use one die (instead of, say, a warhammer doing 7d5 damage it does 6+1d29. This makes for much more widely varied damage rolls and less consistency. However, against high armor monsters, that is a good thing, and helps increase your damage over time.

That is just as big a part of the swingy PvM damage numbers here as the quirky AR system. In fact, it's probably a bigger part of it.

Dalavar, please admit that there are broken systems at work w/r/t Damage and Armor or otherwise be considered a silly person.

Personally, I would like to see location severity "weighted". I think it's asinine to assume that a plate gorget can or should absorb equal damage as a plate chest piece. Physics can back me up on this. A plate tunic has far more mass than a plate gorget, therefore, the plate chest will absorb far more force. Also, you can crack a rib and keep fighting for your life...you take a big blow to your neck and you are done fighting. Or if you get hit in the hands, that's severe too, because now you cant hold your weapon effectively, or perform somatic gestures for spells. So, I LIKE the way it works vs monsters.

Just my opinion.

Of course, knowing that if I take a hit to the neck, presumably I'd spend some extra effort to defend that area. Especially if I am a Grandmaster Swordsman, you'd think I'd have learned to protect the neck and the dome at some point in my training. Nash Equilibrium states that a perfect swordsman will work to ensure any hit that squeaks through is equally (minimally) damaging. Otherwise there's an inefficiency. Realism 4tw!

I don't like the way it works, but I wouldn't call it broken. Broken is shields not having the correct AR, or a war axe not being considered a mace. A damage roll system that actually HELPS players - whether they realize it or not - is not broken. It's quirky (or silly, if you prefer). I'm not really sure what you're asking here. I was pretty clear, I thought, about why I think players are seeing what they're seeing. I tried to be clear with my suggestion of how it could work more intuitively or consistently. Let's work together to be happy with this, rather than try to be inflammatory with posts that are completely void of substance.

So you're just going to jump from one retarded excuse to another? Ok..............You can say stupid things all day long and you wont disprove physics.

That's actually pretty far from retarded. It makes valid sense that if you had your body covered in metal plating of x thickness, the damage that gets through would be the same anywhere that it is hit. If a warrior takes a sword across his chest, the same thickness of metal is impeding damage as it would be on his neck. The percentages of chance to hit that area make it fairly reasonable.

What valid sense? if we assume material and thickness are equal, then total mass of the object is the only variable, and that DEFINATELY interferes with force. Seriously. its scientific fact

Total mass of the object has nothing to do with how hard it is to penetrate armor plating. If it is the same thickness and build quality, uniformly, the only chance at better penetration would be at a point where the plate is joined together. Those intersections are not in the variables of the game.

I mean, I'm all for a blow to the neck taking off someone's head and one-hit-killing them, but it just wouldn't be a sensible balanced function here.

We are WAYYYY off topic here, but Fisher of Men you are misunderstanding what I am saying. I don't care about the physics of what happens if you hit two different things with equal force. I'm actually not sure if what you say or what Blaise would say happens is right.

What I am saying is that the two hits will not be of equal force.

Look at it this way... if every time someone gets hit in the plate tunic, they keep fighting... and every time they get hit in the plate gorget, they die... they're going to work pretty darn hard to minimize the force with which they get hit in the plate gorget. This is common sense, rational behavior.

So you can't just assume that every time someone gets hit in the plate tunic and every time they get hit in the plate gorget, both hits will be made with the exact same force.

Practical example: when boxers are fighting, why do they begin with their hands up in front of their face? Because if they get hit in the head, IT HURTS A LOT, and could end the fight right there. So they adjust their strategy such that hits to the head are less damaging.

Same thing a Grandmaster Swordsman would do, but with a sword instead of their hands.

*Breathes* Ok, Dalavar, I apologize. We are discussing two different things. I believe what you are describing is already represented somewhat in game by the already existing chances to hit various parts. (Yes, a defender doesn't want to get hit in the head/neck/hands...however an attacker would certainly aim for these points...who's to say what a perfect hit chance for each spot is? not us.) And on the issue of "force being applied in each hit" that's also "taken care of" by the game...each hit already has a random die roll.

Blaise, please show me ANY force/momentum/collision equation that doesn't involve mass. You cant do it.

I'll show you that if I shoot a pistol at a steel plate, it will have the same chance to penetrate and damage something on the other side, as it would when shooting an identically thick piece of steel plate. That's it. I'm not a physics major or a math nerd, but that is basic logic if you ask me.

That's not a very good example, bullets travel so fast that they generate heat and actually melt thru steel plate.

Just trust me. Heavier objects absorb more force than lighter ones.