Balance - Tamers, PKs, Dexxers, Thieves

Discussion in 'Renaissance Discussion' started by Milky Milkerson, Jan 6, 2017.

  1. Milky Milkerson

    Milky Milkerson Member

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    Ok I've only been here about a month and I'm very slowly building my toons... but, reading the forums and IRC and some amount of experience in the world, here's what I have gathered...

    Tamers - most people agree these are OP af. 8 control slots to run around with 3-4 very powerful immortal tanks. A fully trained up tamer is difficult if not impossible to solo PK. People who play tamers have like 4 or 5 of them and play them all the time. People who don't want to take a week to build one, will always complain about how unfair it is. People who like to solo PK are (for some reason) mad that they can't easily gank a tamer 1-1.

    PKs - most people agree that PKs are part of the "true UO" experience. Killing naked tamers in training? No prob as long as it gets you cheap counts to stay red. Most agree these need to be stun mages to be really effective.

    Dexxer - Is a hobbyist class. You pay 500K for your sword and are still pretty much weaker than any other player you will come across. Those who love playing dexxers might argue otherwise. But even a very skilled dexxer is risking like a million gold worth of weapons and armor to go against a stun mage risking 5K tops (to be on even offensive/defensive ground).

    Thief - Thieves are the funniest situation. It seems everyone agrees they are UP. The mechanics don't favor them at all (easy to lock your regs and stuff in a box, messed up weights, too many fails at GM, guard wacking by NPCs from a screen away). However, when a thief waits for hours and pulls off a big score, everybody cries about that more than anything. These are the situations when someone will say "oh no all my scrolls are gone, I'm quitting the game altogether". Granted, these big house loots aren't using snooping/stealing, but they do use hiding/stealth and require a certain playstyle very different than mages or fighters or tamers.
    Cherie likes this.
  2. wylwrk

    wylwrk Well-Known Member

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    Meh, don't get lost in the minutia... come back, come back.
  3. Milky Milkerson

    Milky Milkerson Member

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    Not going anywhere wylwrk. Just babbling on the forum cause I'm bored at work.
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  4. ReZon

    ReZon Well-Known Member
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    The best thing to do is to not get overly involved in any drama or rants, play the game the way you like to play it, and not worry about what other folks are doing.

    That's always helped me to continue to enjoy things.
  5. Gideon Jura

    Gideon Jura Well-Known Member
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    Voluntary response bias is a thing.
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  6. Halabinder

    Halabinder Well-Known Member

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    YAS! aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand?
  7. Gideon Jura

    Gideon Jura Well-Known Member
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    Here's my experience from over 4 years on UO:R,

    Tamer-Disco:

    - Template: Taming, Animal Lore, Veterinary, Discordance, Musicianship, Magery, Meditation
    - Class Summary: Taming + Discordance allows you to significantly debuff monsters which increases the dps and durability of your pets at the cost of durability of the player.
    - Thrives in scenarios where single target dps is needed. Fares poorly against multiple npc or pc enemies.

    - PvM Open world and champ:
    ✮✮✮✮Best Class for gold per hour - you rek most monster types easily.​
    - PvM Battle Mining:
    Not effective. I've found the pets to be frustrating versus golems and elementals.​
    - PvM: Amibs, Level 7s, and Xmas Scrolls:
    ✮✮✮Strong and efficient but pull mobs one by one.​
    - PvM Halloween Instance Event:
    Useless.​
    - PvM Tracking Events (Xmas Overworld, Easter):
    Useless unless combined with a tracker.​
    - PvP Field Fights, IDOCs, Factions, Order vs. Chaos, Guildwars:
    Not optimal as you are extremely vulnerable to dumps.​
    - PvP CTF:
    Useless.​
    - PvP Tournaments:
    Useless.​
    - Stealing:
    Useless.​
    - Rare Hunting:
    As effective as any other non stealing/hiding class. Certain rares are inaccessible without stealing.​
    - Crafting:
    Useless.​

    Tamer-Provo:
    - Template: Taming, Animal Lore, Veterinary, Provoke, Musicianship, Magery, Meditation
    - Class Summary: Taming + Provoke allows you to crowd control which increases your dps and durability of your pets at the cost of durability of the player.
    - Less single target dps but you gain the ability to crowd control. Fares poorly against pc enemies.

    - PvM Open world and champ:
    ✮✮✮Great Class for gold per hour - you destroy most monster types easily.​
    - PvM Battle Mining:
    Not effective. I've found the pets to be frustrating versus golems and elementals.​
    - PvM: Amibs, Level 7s, and Xmas Scrolls:
    ✮✮✮✮Amazing Template as you can control additional monsters to keep your pets safe.​
    - PvM Halloween Instance Event:
    Useless.​
    - PvM Tracking Events (Xmas Overworld, Easter):
    Useless unless combined with a tracker.​
    - PvP Field Fights, IDOCs, Factions, Order vs. Chaos, Guildwars:
    Not optimal as you are extremely vulnerable to dumps.​
    - PvP CTF:
    Useless.​
    - PvP Tournaments:
    Useless.​
    - Stealing:
    Useless.​
    - Rare Hunting:
    As effective as any other non stealing/hiding class. Certain rares are inaccessible without stealing.​
    - Crafting:
    Useless.
    Tamer-Disco-Provo:
    - Template: Taming, Animal Lore, Veterinary, Discordance, Provoke, Musicianship, Magery
    - Class Summary: Taming + Disco + Provoke is the ultimate offensive template with absolutely no defense or even mana to survive.
    - Best support tamer character as single target damage and crowd control are both available. Very very fragile.

    - PvM Open world and champ:
    ✮✮✮Great Class for gold per hour - you rek most monster types easily. However, your mana takes forever to recover. This is not suitable as a primary.​
    - PvM Battle Mining:
    Not effective. I've found the pets to be frustrating versus golems and elementals.​
    - PvM: Amibs, Level 7s, and Xmas Scrolls:
    Lack of mana will be a real problem with this template.​
    - PvM Halloween Instance Event:
    Useless.​
    - PvM Tracking Events (Xmas Overworld, Easter):
    Useless unless combined with a tracker.​
    - PvP Field Fights, IDOCs, Factions, Order vs. Chaos, Guildwars:
    Useless.​
    - PvP CTF:
    Useless.​
    - PvP Tournaments:
    Useless.​
    - Stealing:
    Useless.​
    - Rare Hunting:
    No meditation is a no go.​
    - Crafting:
    Useless.
    Tamer-Eval:
    - Template: Taming, Animal Lore, Veterinary, Magery, Meditation, EvalInt, Resist
    - Class Summary: Taming with Eval and Resist gives your offensive spells power and makes you rather tanky.
    - Less single target dps and no crowd control but you gain offensive output in pvp and some durability.

    - PvM Open world and champ:
    ✮✮✮Great Class for gold per hour - you rek most monster types easily.​
    - PvM Battle Mining:
    Not effective. I've found the pets to be frustrating versus golems and elementals.​
    - PvM: Amibs, Level 7s, and Xmas Scrolls:
    ✮✮Lack of Provo or Disco will make these more painful.​
    - PvM Halloween Instance Event:
    Useless.​
    - PvM Tracking Events (Xmas Overworld, Easter):
    Useless unless combined with a tracker.​
    - PvP Field Fights, IDOCs, Factions, Order vs. Chaos, Guildwars:
    ✮✮✮✮Great team member in a big fight.​
    - PvP CTF:
    Useless.​
    - PvP Tournaments:
    Useless.​
    - Stealing:
    Useless.​
    - Rare Hunting:
    As effective as any other non stealing/hiding class. Certain rares are inaccessible without stealing.​
    - Crafting:
    Useless.​

    Tamer-Tracking:
    - Template: Taming, Animal Lore, Veterinary, Magery, Meditation, Tracking + Anything
    - Class Summary: Taming with tracking is a great template for overworld events and also useful for evading ganks.
    - Niche class mostly suitable for events.

    - PvM Open world and champ:
    ✮✮✮Great Class for gold per hour - you rek most monster types easily.​
    - PvM Battle Mining:
    Not effective. I've found the pets to be frustrating versus golems and elementals.​
    - PvM: Amibs, Level 7s, and Xmas Scrolls:
    ✮✮Lack of Provo or Disco will make these more painful.​
    - PvM Halloween Instance Event:
    Useless.​
    - PvM Tracking Events (Xmas Overworld, Easter):
    ✮✮✮✮Find monsters and gate in your pets! What could be better?​
    - PvP Field Fights, IDOCs, Factions, Order vs. Chaos, Guildwars:
    ✮✮✮Great team member in a big fight.​
    - PvP CTF:
    Useless.​
    - PvP Tournaments:
    Useless.​
    - Stealing:
    Useless.​
    - Rare Hunting:
    As effective as any other non stealing/hiding class. Certain rares are inaccessible without stealing.​
    - Crafting:
    Useless.​

    Bard-Provoke-Eval:
    - Template: Provoke, Musicianship, Magery, Meditation, EvalInt, Resist + TRACKING
    - Class Summary: Great character for a variety of very specific game activities.
    - Easily the best starting template on UO:R. Easy and cheap to train and brings in great gold per hour at little risk.

    - PvM Open world and champ:
    ✮✮Good Class for gold per hour at many locations - you rek most monster types easily.​
    - PvM Battle Mining:
    Useless​
    - PvM: Amibs, Level 7s, and Xmas Scrolls:
    Too slow.​
    - PvM Halloween Instance Event:
    ✮✮Amazing team member for any group.​
    - PvM Tracking Events (Xmas Overworld, Easter):
    ✮✮✮Find monsters and gate in other characters.​
    - PvP Field Fights, IDOCs, Factions, Order vs. Chaos, Guildwars:
    Only good for scouting and supporting.​
    - PvP CTF:
    Useless.​
    - PvP Tournaments:
    Useless.​
    - Stealing:
    Useless.​
    - Rare Hunting:
    As effective as any other non stealing/hiding class. Certain rares are inaccessible without stealing.​
    - Crafting:
    Useless.​

    Dexer-LJ-Provo:
    - Template: Provoke, Musicianship, Lumberjacking, Swordsmanship, Tactics, Anatomy, Healing
    - Class Summary: Great character for a variety of very specific game activities.
    - Niche class useful for dominating instance events for max profit (ironman).

    - PvM Open world and champ:
    Lack of Recall is really bad here.​
    - PvM Battle Mining:
    ✮✮Great damage and crowd control but requires a gate support character.​
    - PvM: Amibs, Level 7s, and Xmas Scrolls:
    ✮✮✮✮Ironman Champion.​
    - PvM Halloween Instance Event:
    ✮✮✮✮Unstoppable.​
    - PvM Tracking Events (Xmas Overworld, Easter):
    Useless unless combined with a tracker.​
    - PvP Field Fights, IDOCs, Factions, Order vs. Chaos, Guildwars:
    Useless​
    - PvP CTF:
    Real Bad.​
    - PvP Tournaments:
    Useless.​
    - Stealing:
    Useless.​
    - Rare Hunting:
    Beyond bad.​
    - Crafting:
    Useless.​

    Dexer-Provo:
    - Template: Provoke, Musicianship, Weapon skill, Tactics, Anatomy, Healing, Magery
    - Class Summary: Great character for a variety of very specific game activities.
    - Excels at instanced events but sucks at most everything else. If you haven't built one of these and run an Amib you are simply missing out!

    - PvM Open world and champ:
    ✮✮Great DPS, can recall, but your weapon is pretty pricey.​
    - PvM Battle Mining:
    ✮✮✮Great damage, crowd control, and you can gate out your ore but still requires a miner buddy.​
    - PvM: Amibs, Level 7s, and Xmas Scrolls:
    ✮✮✮✮Ironman Champion.​
    - PvM Halloween Instance Event:
    ✮✮✮✮Unstoppable.​
    - PvM Tracking Events (Xmas Overworld, Easter):
    Useless unless combined with a tracker.​
    - PvP Field Fights, IDOCs, Factions, Order vs. Chaos, Guildwars:
    Useless​
    - PvP CTF:
    Pretty Darn Bad.​
    - PvP Tournaments:
    Useless.​
    - Stealing:
    Useless​
    - Rare Hunting:
    No meditation is a no go.​
    - Crafting:
    Useless.​

    Dexer-LJ-Miner
    - Template: Lumberjacking, Swordsmanship, Tactics, Anatomy, Healing, Magery, Mining
    - Class Summary: Great character for a variety of very specific game activities.
    - Battle mining is a fun and safe way to either make a lot of cash or decorate your home. Everybody should give it a shot.

    - PvM Open world and champ:
    Lack of Provoke and no resist makes this a pretty bad overworld template.​
    - PvM Battle Mining:
    ✮✮✮✮Great damage, crowd control, and you can gate out your ore.​
    - PvM: Amibs, Level 7s, and Xmas Scrolls:
    This is just a bad dexer with no crowd control now.​
    - PvM Halloween Instance Event:
    ✮✮✮Still really strong in this event!​
    - PvM Tracking Events (Xmas Overworld, Easter):
    Useless unless combined with a tracker.​
    - PvP Field Fights, IDOCs, Factions, Order vs. Chaos, Guildwars:
    Pretty Useless​
    - PvP CTF:
    Pretty Darn Bad.​
    - PvP Tournaments:
    Useless.​
    - Stealing:
    Useless​
    - Rare Hunting:
    No meditation is a no go.​
    - Crafting:
    Useless.​


    Dexer-LJ:
    - Template: Lumberjacking, Swordsmanship, Tactics, Anatomy, Healing, Magery, Resist
    - Class Summary: Very versatile melee character.
    - The bread and butter of dexers - huge hits!

    - PvM Open world and champ:
    ✮✮✮There are many locations that this template thrives.​
    - PvM Battle Mining:
    ✮✮✮Great damage, can gate ore, but requires a miner buddy.​
    - PvM: Amibs, Level 7s, and Xmas Scrolls:
    Without provo you're going to have a bad time.​
    - PvM Halloween Instance Event:
    ✮✮✮✮High Dps and durability.​
    - PvM Tracking Events (Xmas Overworld, Easter):
    Useless unless combined with a tracker.​
    - PvP Field Fights, IDOCs, Factions, Order vs. Chaos, Guildwars:
    ✮✮Effective, deadly, but obviously weak to sync dumps.​
    - PvP CTF:
    ✮✮✮✮Very strong team member.​
    - PvP Tournaments:
    ✮✮✮LJs are one of the more well suited dexers to this environment.​
    - Stealing:
    Useless​
    - Rare Hunting:
    No meditation is a no go.​
    - Crafting:
    Useless.​

    Dexer:
    - Template: Weapon Skill, Tactics, Anatomy, Healing, Magery, Resist, Meditation
    - Class Summary: Very versatile melee character.
    - Roll with a Warhammer, Spear, Bow, Hally, Katana.. choice is yours.

    - PvM Open world and champ:
    ✮✮✮There are many locations that this template still thrives.​
    - PvM Battle Mining:
    ✮✮✮Great damage, can gate ore, but requires a miner buddy.​
    - PvM: Amibs, Level 7s, and Xmas Scrolls:
    Without provo you're going to have a bad time.​
    - PvM Halloween Instance Event:
    ✮✮✮Good Dps and durability.​
    - PvM Tracking Events (Xmas Overworld, Easter):
    Useless unless combined with a tracker.​
    - PvP Field Fights, IDOCs, Factions, Order vs. Chaos, Guildwars:
    ✮✮Effective, deadly, but obviously weak to sync dumps.​
    - PvP CTF:
    ✮✮✮✮Very strong team member.​
    - PvP Tournaments:
    ✮✮Requires a lot of skill to do well but people pull it off.​
    - Stealing:
    Useless​
    - Rare Hunting:
    No meditation is a no go.​
    - Crafting:
    Useless.​

    Mage-Stun-Track:
    - Template: Magery, Resist, Meditation, EvalInt, Anatomy, Wrestling, Tracking
    - Class Summary: Pk extraordinaire.
    - Track them, find them, stun them, and dump them.

    - PvM Open world and champ:
    Pretty bad but you still have EV, Blades, etc.​
    - PvM Battle Mining:
    Useless.​
    - PvM: Amibs, Level 7s, and Xmas Scrolls:
    Without provo you're going to have a bad time.​
    - PvM Halloween Instance Event:
    You can still go for that heal award!​
    - PvM Tracking Events (Xmas Overworld, Easter):
    ✮✮✮Find monsters and gate in other characters. Or PK everybody. Your choice.​
    - PvP Field Fights, IDOCs, Factions, Order vs. Chaos, Guildwars:
    ✮✮✮✮Amazing damage, support, and scouting.​
    - PvP CTF:
    ✮✮✮✮Strong team member.​
    - PvP Tournaments:
    ✮✮✮Great but not the best.​
    - Stealing:
    Useless​
    - Rare Hunting:
    As effective as any other non stealing/hiding class. Certain rares are inaccessible without stealing.​
    - Crafting:
    Useless.​

    Mage-Stun-Heal:
    - Template: Magery, Resist, Meditation, EvalInt, Anatomy, Wrestling, Healing
    - Class Summary: Balance.
    - Stuns and dumps, heals and bandages, you're well equipped for the field.

    - PvM Open world and champ:
    Pretty bad but you still have EV, Blades, etc.​
    - PvM Battle Mining:
    Useless.​
    - PvM: Amibs, Level 7s, and Xmas Scrolls:
    Without provo you're going to have a bad time.​
    - PvM Halloween Instance Event:
    ✮✮✮✮Heal award on lock son. Best teammate to have!​
    - PvM Tracking Events (Xmas Overworld, Easter):
    Useless.​
    - PvP Field Fights, IDOCs, Factions, Order vs. Chaos, Guildwars:
    ✮✮✮✮Amazing damage and support.​
    - PvP CTF:
    ✮✮✮✮Strong team member.​
    - PvP Tournaments:
    ✮✮✮✮Amazing template.​
    - Stealing:
    Useless​
    - Rare Hunting:
    As effective as any other non stealing/hiding class. Certain rares are inaccessible without stealing.​
    - Crafting:
    Useless.​

    Thief-Tracker:
    - Template: Magery, Meditation, Snooping, Stealing, Hiding, Tracking + 1 more skill
    - Class Summary: Rogue.
    - Do things and stuff.

    - PvM Open world and champ:
    Pretty bad but you still have EV, Blades, etc.​
    - PvM Battle Mining:
    Useless.​
    - PvM: Amibs, Level 7s, and Xmas Scrolls:
    You aren't really hard core til you ironman an amib on a thief.​
    - PvM Halloween Instance Event:
    You can still go for that heal award!​
    - PvM Tracking Events (Xmas Overworld, Easter):
    ✮✮✮Find monsters and gate in other characters. Or steal from everybody. Your choice.​
    - PvP Field Fights, IDOCs, Factions, Order vs. Chaos, Guildwars:
    ✮✮Amazing support character. A welcome teammate depending on the circumstances.​
    - PvP CTF:
    Nope.​
    - PvP Tournaments:
    That's not a bingo.​
    - Stealing:
    ✮✮✮✮Get that top shots or thief of the month award.​
    - Rare Hunting:
    ✮✮✮✮The one and only.​
    - Crafting:
    Useless.
    Crafter:
    - Template: Blacksmithing, Tailoring, Carpentry, Tinkering, Magery + 2 more skills
    - Class Summary: Pretty dirty.
    - Make things and stuff.

    - PvM Open world and champ:
    Pretty bad but you still have EV, Blades, etc.​
    - PvM Battle Mining:
    Useless.​
    - PvM: Amibs, Level 7s, and Xmas Scrolls:
    Without provo you're going to have a bad time.​
    - PvM Halloween Instance Event:
    ✮✮✮✮We don't win this thing without our crafters, folks.​
    - PvM Tracking Events (Xmas Overworld, Easter):
    Useless​
    - PvP Field Fights, IDOCs, Factions, Order vs. Chaos, Guildwars:
    Haha​
    - PvP CTF:
    Nope.​
    - PvP Tournaments:
    That's not a bingo.​
    - Stealing:
    Also not a bingo.​
    - Rare Hunting:
    No meditation is a no go.​
    - Crafting:
    ✮✮✮✮That is a bingo.

    Other Template Options on UO:R:
    Dexer-Poison (✮✮✮✮CTF)
    Dexer-Tamer(✮✮✮✮Instanced Events)
    Dexer-Disco(✮✮✮✮Single Target DPS)
    Dexer-Peace(✮✮✮✮Spankin' Balrons)
    Dexer-Miner-Smith(✮✮✮✮Halloween)
    Scribe-Warrior(✮✮✮✮LOL Blaise)
    Mage-Stun-Scribe(✮✮✮✮PVP)
    Mage-Stun-Poison(✮✮✮✮PVP)
    etc.

    You might be asking... "Why did I just read all of that?" Or more importantly, "why did Gideon write all of that?"

    UO, the UO:R era, and specifically, UO:Renaissance provides an unbelievable game experience. We have so many different things we can do here and there are so many templates to pick from. Tamers are strong at some things. Provos are strong at others. Dexers are strong at another variety of in game activities. No class is best at all and many give up being the best at any one thing by having huge disadvantages in others. In fact, that is the case in every situation.

    Want the highest single target sustained dps? You're probably wanting a disco-LJ with a slayer or a disco tamer. But both those templates are glass cannons.

    Want the best field combat character? Sure, but don't expect to be winning halloween or soloing an instance event with that same character.

    Can you slap Taming on a dude and be better at everything? No.

    Are 8 bondable control slots for 200 skill points overpowered? Probably a bit. The burst damage can be too heavy versus other players and their ability to tank and deal dps over long periods of time and through high AR sets the bar for boss monster difficulty automatically. If players had less tanky pets with less burst dps and less damage coming from fire breath (ignores AR), a lot of rebalancing might need to occur. It would be an interesting situation. I have no opinion on it one way or another.

    Are dexxers a hobby class? Most definitely not. Dexer dps is crazy. Try rolling a dexer, especially a Lumberjack, and put a simple slayer in their hands. I'm not even talking about a good slayer. Just a silver double axe. That thing hits hard and very fast. The slayer market is very active and slayers are very reasonably priced. You don't need a 400k weapon. You can often do just fine with a weapon that costs 3k-10k.

    Of everything said in the original post, I'd say that thieving should have more stuff going for it. That said, I play my thief very VERY often. It is handsdown my favorite character at the moment.

    To this date, all things said, Parry could do with an improvement in the PvM arena so I will continue to kindly and peacefully lobby for slayer shields.
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2017
  8. Vandalin

    Vandalin Well-Known Member
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    Gideon Jura likes this.
  9. Bayara

    Bayara Well-Known Member

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    LOADS of effort.
    super interesting to see it splayed out in that fashion.

    Milky, as a thief-thug kind of dexxer who is not afraid to fight pvm tamers [notice I said pvm]
    I can admit that they are killable.
    and the ones I have failed to kill, I came damn close numerous times.
    in the end the tactical error was mine by becoming impatient or too bold and getting myself into bad situations.

    pvp tamers tend to utilize the para spell in high volume and burn me out of trapped pouches too fast.
    so I just avoid them.
    if I changed around my skills a bit I might feel braver with going after them.
    Gideon Jura likes this.
  10. PaddyOBrien

    PaddyOBrien Well-Known Member

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    That should be copied into a standalone guide @Gideon Jura so it doesnt get lost in the shuffle, great and informative read! Maybe add stat adjustment suggestions for dex int and str?
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  11. Gideon Jura

    Gideon Jura Well-Known Member
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  12. Milky Milkerson

    Milky Milkerson Member

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    Great, detailed response Gideon. Thanks for taking the time to write all that up. I agree it should be a standalone guide.
  13. Milky Milkerson

    Milky Milkerson Member

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    Also you mentioned taming having 200 skill points but I would argue it's 300. Not sure how well a tamer would do in any format without vet.
  14. Gideon Jura

    Gideon Jura Well-Known Member
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    Some people actually do it! There are some crazy templates out there :D

    It's now a standalone. I'll add stats at some point.
    Vandalin and PaddyOBrien like this.
  15. Ron Jeremy

    Ron Jeremy Well-Known Member

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    Milky, I am one of the hand full that plays a pure LJ/DP dexer on this server alot (3 LJs currently) The damage is nuts, you are no squishier then a tank mage but the problem is you're most always targeted first for 3 reasons.

    1. perception of being squishier
    2. they want my aggy wheap
    3. they can't handle the damage of the aggy wheap

    My full load out at full retail consists of
    15 Blue 525
    15 White 525
    25 Red 875
    25 Yellow 875
    25 Oranges 1,125
    35 Purples 3,150
    1 5 Charge G heal wand 6,000
    1 aggy 2 handed wheap 40,000
    1 gold 1 handed wheap (on dp dexer 15,000)
    1 full barbed suit 2,500
    45 each reg 1,170
    100 bandies 200
    10 dp pots (on dp dexer) 1,200

    LJ cost = 56,945
    DP dexer cost = 73,145

    Obviously if you cut to vanquishing wheaps the cost is drastically reduced. G heal wands are a MUST or you are super squish just like any other character.

    Both characters have the same templates
    30 med
    70 magery
    100 LJ/Poison
    100 Swords/Fencing
    100 Tactics
    100 Healing
    100 Anatomy
    100 resist

    LJs wreck the best of them, if you run around only healing you might not die but if you try and fight this template 1v1 and you're MB stats and not buffed you're almost certainty going to get 2 shot, I plug full armor mages for 40+ all day long with aggy plus throwing purple pots at them.

    DP fencer, LJs worse nightmare! 1 DP wheap with 10+ DP pots means there is NO way you have enough orange pots to possibly cure it all. Long spears although slower seem to be where its at. I toss purples on, especially when I land a para blow! The problem against mages is the damage output is not as consistently high as the axe and mages can case cure with less chance of being hit with wrestle.

    With either template when you're buffed and have a G heal wand plus yellow pots there is no way a 2 mage sync is going to kill me, a 3 mage will but it had better be synced really well and I not resist many of the spells.

    110 hps (buffed)
    Explode max 42 / min 25
    Energy Bolt max 42 / min 24
    G heal wand 29-32+
    Yellow pot 9-30 Heal

    Averages 110 - 33 -33 +30 +20 -33 -33 = +28

    Additionally keep in mind tactics damage output is capped at 100 so even if you have 125 with a supremely accurate weapon you're still only getting the damage based on 100.

    All in all I have a way better time in pvp with my DP fencer although if I really want to lay people out I switch the LJ!
    Gideon Jura and Bayara like this.
  16. Orange

    Orange Active Member

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    the fact that gideon gave stun-posion mage 4 stars proves he does'nt PVP here ROFL.
  17. Bayara

    Bayara Well-Known Member

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    Fantastic personal template share there Ron.
    Really interesting read.

    I am fence anat tactics poison and thinling of switching to swords to use katana and axe. Even without LJ i feel i will get steadier dmg hits.
    Though it does seem worth it to keep fencing for para blow when i am out with friends so they can get synched bow shots off.
    PaddyOBrien likes this.
  18. Gideon Jura

    Gideon Jura Well-Known Member
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    was hoping somebody would notice!!!!!! that was my hidden check! :D
    Mindless likes this.
  19. ebola

    ebola Active Member

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    Milky Milkerson likes this.

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