Boss monsters are good/bad: discuss

Discussion in 'Renaissance Discussion' started by Blaise, Sep 25, 2012.

  1. Blaise

    Blaise Well-Known Member
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    After a bit of crying this morning about not being able to solo the Executioners on my bard, I've realized the added boss monster spawn is a great thing, in my opinion. I'm of the opinion that no single person should be able to pump gold from a high-end spawn like Execs, Ogre Lords, Elder Gazers, etc. Something should be in place that requires you to be there with a party.
    You want to solo, go somewhere low-level, because otherwise you'll get smashed.

    Promoting teamwork and reducing the overnight millionaires is a good thing for the shard as a whole. Yes, I wouldn't have all that I have if I hadn't ran Executioners solo for hours upon hours prior to this change. Now it's going to take a bit of real teamwork to handle it efficiently and make decent money. Good times. :)

    I say cheers to that.
  2. Zagyg

    Zagyg Active Member
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    I've seen this repeated so many times across so many servers. People in big guilds always promote group-only monsters, always say that solo players can take a hike and they suck, and that accomodating big guilds is good for servers because they are what makes a server live and breathe; solo players argue the validity and value of solo players, stating that they've played solo for years, that solo players add to the server's economy and player count, and that it's just a matter of different playing preferences. Generally no one changes anyone else's opinion; I guess we've all been playing Ultima so long that we made up our minds about things a decade ago.

    For the record, I'm mostly a solo player. I was not when I played in 1999; I belonged to a guild then and always adventured in groups. But back then I also had no life and played this game at least 8 hours a day, every day. It was all new to me then and the game was changing and hanging out with other players helped me understand what was going on a lot better. Now I'm married, I have a 2 1/2 year old son, and I work six days a week. For every day I play, there's a day when all I have time to do is set up characters to macro. The few hours I do play have to be stolen away from something else I could or should be doing. That's okay because I accept the trade-off to enjoy playing this game, but you won't catch me trading off sleep or house duties or family time to stand around in-game typing for half an hour or chatting on IRC. When you belong to a guild or group there's an expectation of being around and wanting to blab pretty often and there just isn't enough time in my day for it. And I know most of this game inside and out, so I'm rarely dependent on others for help. The few times I find myself stumped I'll ask a question on the forums and in turn I try to help others out.

    Now I'm not saying that the server absolutely has to cater to people like me - I'm just replying to Blaise's post and offering a different look at things. I'm just a guy and that's my story and now you know where I'm coming from. There are two things I'd like to point out about this subject. The first is that even though I've seen guildies belittle solo players many times I don't recall ever seeing solo players up in arms over guilds and players hanging out together. I guess we could call this the 'Romney effect'. Those with power and wealth are hungry to get more of the same and have greater control over them. The rich stay rich and the poor stay poor.... I happen to like much of what Blaise has said on these forums, but is it not enough that being in a guild already offers him vastly greater wealth than solo PvMers can achieve and with less risk? How long did it take A^T to get a fortress again....? You really have to try and knock solo players down even a few more notches?

    I'm all for the existence of monsters so powerful they cannot be soloed. It seems sensible to me that such creatures could exist and are available to offer greater challenge to guilds. I'm not exactly dying for guilds to have portals to even greater wealth and rares than they already do but I understand the value to the server and guilds of it. It may also keep them out of some other PvM spots. But Blaise's far-reaching statement about making all high-end mobs (Elders/Balrons/Bloods/Ogre Lords/etc) group-only is ridiculous and cannot be justified. He wants solo players to drink Kool-Aid while he chugs champagne simply because he's in a guild and they aren't. You've already got it good - no, great - by being in a big guild. Appreciate that instead of grasping for more at the expense of others. High-end mobs do not need to be altered to satisfy anyone's greed. It's hard enough for solo players to compete with guilds for the spots AND deal with pks AND take down the monsters already. The addition of new 'boss' group-only creatures is entirely different. Go for it, enjoy, and leave the solo players play in peace the same way they let you do your thing in peace
  3. Wise

    Wise Well-Known Member
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    Where did anyone say that?



    The only expectation we have (and I am not really sure its enforced) is not being a total d-bag. Other than that we have players of all activity levels (daily, few days a week, weekly and even the once every few weeks guys who log on to mess around).

    If you read carefully you would notice he said he got rich by soloing executioners. I got 'rich' by soloing EX, ogre lords, titans etc. Being in A^T just means you have the possibility of calling for help when needed, organizing a social event when the mood strikes and knowing you have friends to rely on is a good thing in the land of UO. You seem to think that A^T is a group of UO oligarchs controlling all the spots and all the gold flow, I can assure you that is far from true. My total net worth is a placed villa a placed small and about 5k in the bank + some reagents.

    I am no psychologist but you seem to have something personal against guilds in general and since A^T is by far the biggest on the shard it makes sense that you would write this post which some can fairly interpret as a personal attack. Hop on our IRC channel and you will see for yourself that we are just a group of adventure loving people (nerds) that enjoy the game from a certain perspective that may not be the same or similar to your own.

    To finish, my opinion is that boss monsters are good and should be all over the place. Why? Because soloing them would bring the ultimate satisfaction, a victory worth savoring!
  4. Zagyg

    Zagyg Active Member
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    Stupid double post, sorry
  5. Zagyg

    Zagyg Active Member
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    I have nothing against guilds. Like any solo player I've ever spoken with, all I want to do is live and let live. I didn't start this beef. I think what I actually object to is pretty clear but I'll spell it out for you -

  6. Wise

    Wise Well-Known Member
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    Fair enough, which part exactly rattles your chain?

    A) I'm of the opinion that no single person should be able to pump gold from a high-end spawn like Execs, Ogre Lords, Elder Gazers, etc.

    or,

    B) Something should be in place that requires you to be there with a party.

    or,

    C) You want to solo, go somewhere low-level, because otherwise you'll get smashed.

    Before you respond here are my 2 cents.

    Re:

    A]

    I couldn't agree more. While I enjoyed the ease with which I was able to farm enough for a couple modest size homes I don't think one person should be able to make 30k+ gold in one overnight session of gaming (which I have done on this server). I play solo about 99% of my time online so this is by no means a stab at solo players. A game of this magnitude and dept should not be exploitable for gold by one person, at least in my humble opinion.

    B]

    With this I disagree, but I don't think Blaise meant should in the sense that there must be something in place but in the sense that there ought to be a challenging enough environment where solo play is (near) impossible in order to promote team play and cooperation.

    C]

    Pretty much the same as B]. I saw a video from another shard where a player soloed an ancient wyrm and it was cool as hell so I think boss monsters should be tough enough to take on any solo player but the ultimate ultima onliners.
  7. Mikanele

    Mikanele New Member

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    What patch did I miss that makes things like OLs non soloable? what other mobs cant be soloed now?
  8. Zagyg

    Zagyg Active Member
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    Actually Wise, I only wrote what I wrote to make my views known to staff as a counter to Blaise's comments. I did not write it as an invite to debate and I won't get caught up in defending what I said, sorry. As I said, I've seen these discussions before - I know how fruitless it is to argue with players over it.
  9. Wise

    Wise Well-Known Member
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    I understand. Just so you know I am not looking for an argument (neither a rational or passionate one) I was simply hoping to understand your position better. You seem like a pretty cool guy and I haven't seen any indication to the contrary so I appreciate your point and contribution to this thread.

    Cheers
  10. Blaise

    Blaise Well-Known Member
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    "But Blaise's far-reaching statement about making all high-end mobs (Elders/Balrons/Bloods/Ogre Lords/etc) group-only is ridiculous and cannot be justified."
    It certainly can be justified, because it is my opinion. That is all. It's not the law or the rule, at all.
    I like to think that in a game that's core tenet is multiplayer (not just that, but massively), there would be things that simply REQUIRE teamwork to accomplish. No, this is not how it is (or was) but in my personal opinion, it's how it should be.

    Mind you, my thought cycle is such that the pay-off for tackling such a high end monster or monsters, is such that the teamwork requires so many people that the loot divided at the end be equivalent or barely greater than what a soloist can make on a lesser spawn.

    Do you gather my meaning? I'm not trying to invalidate solo adventurers. I'll be damned if I don't take some time on occasion to play UO without my guild mates (no offense brothers and sisters), just for the peace of mind and solitude. It's rare, but it is the truth. I am a single father with two children who live with me full time, and I work full time, and I run a guild with the help of my fellow leadership. The guild knows, or certainly should, that real life comes first and there should be no apologies for absence in a game world. We may say sorry I couldn't make it as a courtesy, but really, we all know what's important. We are good people and that is the only requirement. Just like Wise said, there are members who play every day and those who only log every month or more, and everything in between.

    I'm a hippie man, not some corporate scumbag. ;)
  11. Chris

    Chris Renaissance Staff
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    I didn't want to get in the middle of a lively discussion, however I wanted to clarify exactly what "Boss Monsters" are and how they exist on Renaissance.

    Patch 18 introduced a special mechanism that if certain conditions are met in certain spots the players may be faced with a challenging foe. These monsters were crafted to require additional player effort and vary quite a great deal in their abilities, stats and difficulty. However should a brave group of adventurers manage to best these new creatures, they will be rewarded for their effort. Once they enter into the world these "Boss" monsters will persist until they are defeated, giving players time to call in backup, or go it alone.

    Note: The staff will not tell you where, when and how these creatures spawn, players must discover this on their own.
  12. Wulver

    Wulver Well-Known Member
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    So it is triggered by a solo farmer and it inhibits them from further farming. It sounds good as long as we can get a group of people to take the beast down. It is kind of like the anti afk farming thing haha.
  13. Blaise

    Blaise Well-Known Member
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    That, ladies and gentlemen, is boss.

    Thanks for the clarification Telamon. This is how they have been encountered so far. I don't know anyone who has managed to take one down solo. Guilds calling out to other guilds, tamers grouping up to defeat great monsters.

    This is multiplayer. :)
  14. Chris

    Chris Renaissance Staff
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    This could happen Wulver, but a player can simply lure the monster to another area, and then resume farming.

    It was not added as a nerf to farmers, but rather as something to reward players who explore and adventure outside of town.
  15. Mandevu

    Mandevu Well-Known Member

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    First of all the chance of a boss spawning is like 1 in 120 so it is not common. Second, most "hunting" areas such as bloods, elders, titans etc have multple spawn points. For example, bloods spawn in 3 spaced out areas in shame, and another two spawn a few screens away. If one boss spawns you can easily lure it away and then continue farming. There are people here, including myself, who have the resources/players to come and take one out a boss for you, and even give you some of the loot. All you have to do is ask. Elder gazers are especially easy in the shame room. 2 spawn in one room and 2 in the other. Para one, lure the boss away, farm the other 3. The point is, I solo hunt all the time and it really is not hard. Cycle through several spots, and ask for help if needed. You guys are making it seem like you are nuetralized completely from being able to solo farm when it's not like that at all. I will say this, balrons and ancient wyrms are supposed to be hard mobs to take down, so naturally if you get a boss spawn of one of those it's going to be very tough to tackle. That's how it should be. I don't think a solo player, aside from a tamer, should be able to take down an AW or balron. Unless you spent a serious amount of time running back and forth ebolting one of them, but who knows how long that would take..
  16. Wulver

    Wulver Well-Known Member
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    Oh trust me, I love the idea of super powerful monsters. I cant wait to slay them all, I wonder if you can get decorative items off of them?
  17. Mandevu

    Mandevu Well-Known Member

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    We killed a Boss balron named, Purveyor of Darkness, and let me tell you...that was one bad SOB. He dropped 11+k, magic weapons/armor, tons of gems worth probably another 3k, level 6 tmap worth over 20k, and some more misc. stuff.
  18. Vandyke

    Vandyke New Member

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    I was on when the Ogre mages popped up (plural as in one popped up each in 2 different farming spots). While not soloable by a bard such as myself, a tamer with 2 Draggys and a mare did come in and down it after much effort. ( I wil point out that we had to distract the ratment that were spawning where we had the OL Mage trapepd, but if it was away from other spawn she wouldn't have needed the hand)
    Also, in order for her to "Solo" (can two dragons and a mare really be called soloing?) she did have to gate out once to save her pets then return to finish the Beastie off.

    Once again (I can taste the bitter bile of jealously rising in my throat) Tamers "can do" what nobody esle can :)

    I will point out though that if my Provocation was high enough, I could have use the OL Mage to make short work of any mobs spawning around me. But yes, other than a good Tamer, these mobs will take a group effort.

    I agree that these are a welcome change. Not that it should discourage solo farming of certain areas, as ANYBODY can achieve that level of play with enough time put in and many players I've come across so far here are quite respectful of first come first serve or sharing spawn. BUT, I do like the added thrill of one popping up and calling for some guidlies, friends, etc etc to come smash it down.

    If nobody is on to help, well then I guess its time to improvise or go farm ore/wood.
  19. Mandevu

    Mandevu Well-Known Member

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    I killed an ogre lord boss and a blood elemental boss today with my 2 wyrms and mare, and i had 0 problems. My pets never went below 1/4 hp, nor was I ever in a situation where i had to gate out. More than likely that tamer had 2 untrained dragons, but dragons are slow and have poor magic. The only boss' that would require a group effort are the balron/AW boss spawns which is easily understandable. If you're using a bard and a boss spawns just call a tamer. Send me a message and i'll lure it off and take care of it and split loot with you.
  20. Double Vision

    Double Vision New Member

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    What a stupid post....

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