Census: Faction Guards in bases

Discussion in 'Factions' started by Liberation, Nov 23, 2013.

  1. Liberation

    Liberation Well-Known Member

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    They do not follow players into faction bases via "orders"/"follow," however they will run in to a base after opposition factioneers.

    Should we disable guards' ability to agress into bases?
  2. bart simpson

    bart simpson Well-Known Member
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    I feel guards should not be allowed to enter bases, either by orders or agroing onto an opposing faction. TB and CoM are at a disadvantage currently with their bases located in town. Minax and SL do not have to worry about their base being flooded with faction guards.
  3. Atraxi

    Atraxi Member

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    i agree with this
  4. Mes

    Mes Well-Known Member

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    Or an advantage, depending on who's controlling the guards...that said I do think it would be better if they couldn't come into bases or even the entrances to bases.

    I don't remember if they could get into bases on OSI shards but I don't think there were any major complaints about them. Perhaps faction guards are just too strong here. Maybe they should be further limited or weakened.
  5. Ezekiel

    Ezekiel Renaissance Staff

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    This is this way intentionally else you could simply lure faction guards to the stronghold line & attack them without them being able to advance any further.
  6. Atraxi

    Atraxi Member

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    You know, i get that certain bases have certain advantages and disadvantages, but I would like to see some of those evened out. At least a little bit.

    For example, I proposed the idea to Telamon back when I was in Minax with SAS to add a "faction healer" to each base. The reason behind that is, when I would get killed at Minax base, I couldn't just run to a healer to rez, like TB could at their base. I had to run around in circles for a while and hope that i came across a wandering healer.

    But adding a healer to just minax and SL (who aren't close to healers like CoM or TB) would then shift the advantage/disadvantage in their direction, rather than even it out.

    Success in factions should be based on the skill of the factioners, not the 1337ness of their base.

    The reason i say all that is because it directly relates to this. If you own Magincia, post guards at the end of the bridge to keep us under seige. That's fine. That sounds awesome actually. That way, if we want to mount an offensive against you, we can only go so far, or just stay on the defense. You shouldn't be able to place 20 guards and use them to help storm our base though, which is exactly what happened the other night. That's not right. If you storm a stronghold, it should be because you were good enough to storm the stronghold and defeat the defenders, not because you had enough silver to place every guard you could.

    "the skill of the factioners"
  7. Atraxi

    Atraxi Member

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    That's not to say that the Minax we fought the other night weren't any good. They were quite good actually. I just feel that the situation would have had a much different outcome had they not been backed by every guard in the city, lured in by a char they placed in CoM just for that purpose.

    I don't want this to turn into a trash talk session about the above-referenced fight, but it must be used as an example because that simply shouldn't have been possible.
  8. HateCrime

    HateCrime Well-Known Member

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    TB/CoM base can also place explosion traps at their entrance because they are in town. So each faction has its advantages/disadvantages due to location.
  9. Cynic

    Cynic Well-Known Member
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    QFT.

    You can't rez near Minax, but you can own a house right outside of it. You can also bring guards to a fight in Brit and Mag but not to SL or Minax.

    Healers aren't an issue if statloss is reinstated.

    I don't see a problem with the way this currently works with faction guards. If you want to take faction guards out of bases completely then I would argue that Dragons and the sort should also be banned from faction bases. There really is no competition when navigating a 1 tile maze into an "all kill".
  10. Atraxi

    Atraxi Member

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    I don't see how this comparison could be made. A couple of dragons can be defeated. Every guard in Magincia cannot be. Using the town guards to fight your battles for you is weak, but beyond that, it essentially means that unless CoM controls Magincia when the fight starts, it's impossible for us to ever hold a sigil ever again. We don't have the numbers to defeat every single guard you can place in the city, especially considering all you have to do is have the town Sheriff standing at the end of the bridge, and just crank out replacements for any guards we do kill until you run out of silver for the town. I think the disadvatage there severely outweighs any disadvantage Minax or SL could come up with.

    And the ability to place a house outside those bases isn't necessarily an advantage for those factions. What if I placed a house outside your base? Now it's a disadvantage.
  11. Blaise

    Blaise Well-Known Member
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    A couple of dragons can be defeated but let's see how many of you it takes to do it when they are on the other side of a single tile choke point. It is far from 'impossible' to hold a sigil just because you don't control the town. You lure the guards off and pot them down. There's only so much silver a town can spend on these things before they're just burning silver for nothing.

    Not having the numbers is not a mechanics problem and quite frankly, CoM DOES have the numbers if you're paying attention lately.


    Guards are really best suited for patrolling sigil monoliths when sigils go hot and you already control the town. Flood the monolith with guards and a lone thief isn't going to bag your sigil without a crew or spending a good while doing it.
  12. Atraxi

    Atraxi Member

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    Pay attention. The issue about the guards isn't about them being near the base. It's the other factions making a CoM char, then using that to lure the guards into our base as their front line in a base assault. During a fight like that, when every guard in the city is filling our base, that makes the fight impossible for us.

    In that situation, the faction attacking the base doesn't have to be able to fight at all. hell they could be all thieves, with no pvp skills. Just have all the guards there and CoM can't do shit.

    As I said above, you should be able to storm our base because you have the ability to storm our base. Not because you know how to kite guards with a CoM spy.
  13. Blaise

    Blaise Well-Known Member
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    Purple potions. Use them, or lose.

    Guards are not FREE to place and only ONE person in the faction can actually place them. Pot the guards, kill the Sheriff, problem solved. I'm paying attention and you're making excuses for things you're unfamiliar with countering.

    Also, alts in opposing factions is likely to be curbed/fixed at some point down the road so will be much less of an issue.
  14. Atraxi

    Atraxi Member

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    Yeah, I'm not as stupid or ignorant as you seem to think I am. I know they're not free and I know that only one person can place them. Don't treat me like the noob you wish i was. You weren't there the other night. We had more than enough people on to defend our base against other factions. Even people with skill. Considering who we were up against, I'm shocked that they resorted to such desperate measures like they didn't know how to fight.

    Town guards should not be allowed into the faction bases. There's no good reason to allow them in there. They're there to defend that TOWN from the other factions, not to defend CoM's base against CoM.
  15. Atraxi

    Atraxi Member

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    Yes, that's true. But just as with the housing at the base entrance, this can also be used to the other side's advantage. If they can place the traps, then YOU can place the traps in the same places, as you demonstrated the other night.
  16. Blaise

    Blaise Well-Known Member
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    Things like dropping hundreds of candelabras?

    The problem is alt-luring, not guards doing what they're supposed to do (attack/follow enemies).
  17. Atraxi

    Atraxi Member

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    Touché. At the time I thought that it was a brilliant idea, but I'll readily admit that I can't fight, yet. I donated the candelabras so I could feel like I did something to help the fight. In the spirit of the current discussion, however, I get your point.
  18. Atraxi

    Atraxi Member

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    I understand that guards are supposed to attack/follow enemies. What I'm saying is that they should do that in the town they're purchased for. The faction base shouldn't be part of that. I'm not just talking about CoM base, either. I'm including TB base in this discussion. Brit/Mag guards should guard Brit/Mag, not TB/CoM base.

    Blaise, you're just sitting here with your fingers in your ears, saying "your idea is stupid", but you're not giving me a reason why the guards SHOULD be allowed into the bases.
  19. Cynic

    Cynic Well-Known Member
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    Atraxi, give me a break, you guys lured a bunch of wisps in there too.

    No other faction can lure anything into their base to help with defense. You guys lured them in there and used them in the exact way we all knew you would.. you guys turtled in that room and let the wisps dump on us.

    Don't call our tactics out as being the only questionable things done that night. If you guys would have defended the base without dragons, candelabras, wisps, etc.. We wouldn't have resorted to using a million guards. Also, and Hatecrime has video, only about 4-5 guards actually leaked into your base and that was completely your guys fault. The "CoM Spy" lured 2, one at a time, and they were immediately dispatched without a problem... that's why we stopped that tactic, it wasn't working... until you guys got greedy and lured them in yourselves.
  20. Atraxi

    Atraxi Member

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    Why not?

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