Era Accuracy and which is more important: The Code or the Culture

Discussion in 'Era Discussion' started by Six.spirit, Jun 13, 2016.

  1. Six.spirit

    Six.spirit Active Member

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    I feel like in production Renaissance era, I remember more people using some skills like Archery, Parrying, and Poisoning in pvp and I remember full bards being more common in PvM. Maybe this has to do with how slow skill gain was in era. Part of me however thinks it has a lot to do with the meta figuring out what works fine and what works best in the elapsed time from production Renaissance to now.

    Some fun playstyles are underused largely because their current mechanics, while era accurate, are too underpowered compared to other options.

    I think part of the importance of era accuracy is attracting players to the server with the nostalgia of one of their favorite periods in gaming. But is it the raw numbers that are attracting them? Or is the memories they have of seeing and playing with archers and roach mages, or playing one themselves?

    Obviously the line has to be drawn somewhere, less the server become a mutation too far beyond era mechanics and becomes unrecognizable to the players that want to re-live the period.

    I'm making this point because I would like to see some of the(and other) above-mentioned skills buffed a small amount to encourage players to try them out again, but not to change the meta too drastically. In the same way that the lumberjacking bonus is nerfed compared to era accurate mechanics for the sake of balance, so too can other skills be brought back to the field with a little help.

    Thanks for reading
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  2. Erza Scarlet

    Erza Scarlet Well-Known Member

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    Agreeing on poisoning buffs, its kind of a worthless skill on a mage at the moment.

    Archery... i believe its fine tbh. if used as a support skill! Ive seen whatever weapon/Archery dexxers using it efficiently, and there are also Archermages around which use the skill quite good. There could be a special move added, or minor increasements to accuracy, but overall its fine if youre using a weapon with archery mod.
    Runic Bows / Bowcrafting could help here too, since good Archery weapons are usually harder to get than other weapons.
    (Please note that Archery works differently here than on other shards, but its pretty deadly with some practice + purple pots)

    Parry... is in kind of an odd spot. The skill wont be seen a lot on the field, since most of the pvp chars are mages here, and you will find a lot more useful skills to fight these. Unlike to t2a shards, tankmages and dexxers are in a minority here to the countless stunmages you will find on Renaissance fields.

    Parry Dexxers are good in CTF matches where you will encounter a lot of weapon users close range, but there wont be a lot of use on the field for parry dexxers in general, and i dont see them beeing useful, even with buffs.
    The only way to improve parry for pvp would be to be able to cast with a shield equipped and to midigate spell damage from monsters (also tamed ones, firebreath included!) which would make Roach Mages more efficient on the field again.
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2016
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  3. Caska VS Trees

    Caska VS Trees Well-Known Member

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    I saw a lot of discussion in old threads about allowing meditation with wooden shields, did anything ever come of that?
  4. One

    One Well-Known Member
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    There have been a ton of great discussions about archery (still ongoing). It doesn't seem likely to change though. Poisoning too.

    Parrying IS slated for change. It seems to me the most likely and popular option was Gideon's suggestion for slayer shields which offer extra protection against specific monster types and rely on the user having a certain amount of parrying skill. That's only PvM, not PvP, which is why it's uncontroversial.

    For my part I also support some kind of archery and parrying PvP buffs. Poisoning, not so sure. I see the value but not sure it would be more fun.

    One idea I like is if having GM poisoning on a dexxer modestly increased the odds of applying a poison strike. Don't see it happening though.

    For archery I'd like to see at least a slight bump in accuracy or firing rate.

    And as for era accuracy... This shard is meant to be an improvement over era so I don't see the need to unquestioningly recreate the year 2000. Excessive deviation would be highly unwelcome but greater balance and more varied styles would improve player experience I feel.
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2016
  5. The Watch

    The Watch Well-Known Member
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    I have a fencer/archer dexxer character that is pretty much my main pvm and pvp character. To me, archery and most of the other melee skills here are just fine. I've run solo almost from the time I got here with a brief stint running with VoP back when they were still active and old man Jupiter was around. I've never had a problem.

    Of course, part of that is my uncanny ability to swallow my pride and run like a spooked mouse when the red posse's show up, as they invariably do. But that's part of the era accuracy..... fleeing the field before you get ganked.

    All of that being said, I would love to find a good, active group of rp-oriented people to hang out and run dungeons with. Running solo gets boring after a while...


    But as far as the mechanics of archery go, I don't see a big problem with it.
  6. Sathar

    Sathar Member

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    Archery is actually totally fine for anyone who GMs it and the support skills like tacs and anat. The weapon buff is to archery itself and so increases accuracy which is the downfall of archery with distance and movement and yes 120% archery really does work like 120%.

    That being said, by the time people figured out what sucked about the ren era they had deved the next era so it was a moot point. The ironic problem a ren shard has is being perfectly stuckin an awesome but regularly unbalanced era. All in all the changes chChris makes are the right ones if you think about themlike a dev ;-)
  7. Dun Scaith

    Dun Scaith Well-Known Member

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    I can't agree with the archery thing. It is terrible. To those that choose to have endured its continual usage, note that it's truly a choice. The upsides to archery are that it does have its style and that lovely "kathunk" noise, which should never be disputed for its own satisfaction, but don't fool yourself. Just admit that it is lacking and enjoy it for what it is.

    I haven't been here for the amount of time the majority of you all have, but it definitely didn't feel like I remember it, though I suppose I am not a renaissance man, coupled with all the of special maneuvers and timing hits available. Please don't attempt to justify Greater Explosions as part of the 'strengths' of archery, that would be the strength of the potion, archery has nothing to do with it.

    To take the case one step farther, I seriously dropped Archery for Forensics. That's how bad Archery is.

    Sadly, I still think Archery is fun. so.. yep! Most anyone that uses it will agree for some reason, they know they're at a disadvantage, but it's 'fun'.
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2016
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  8. Lnomer

    Lnomer Active Member

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    Archer mage is very good tbh in duel pits... In a limited area where people cant screen you. So you can duel very good with archery.
    If you have fast enough connection you can even be very usefull in fields too. Vanq bow can deliver up to 35ish damage added +15-18 exp pot damage with a precasted explosion is quite deadly for a single person. With a hxbow you can kill with the combo too.

    You just need to practice a lot for perfect timings and combos.

    My archer mage is my most beloved template to play with.

    I will be happy to help people who wants to play with their archer mages. You can pm me through irc (Deathshot) or through the forums than we can schedule practises with you guys.

    Best
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  9. Dun Scaith

    Dun Scaith Well-Known Member

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    So for practical usage it is lacking, and under specific restricted space its just dandy? The combos could be said about a lot of differing skill sets that are more useful while the same restrictions aren't placed. I watched a pretty wicked video of a MAGE/archer not an ARCHER/mage there is totally a difference - doing some good work in a duel pit, probably because he didn't move that much if at all.. in these videos mind you no explosion potions were even used.

    So.. yeah i think we agree; Magery is a good skill. Isn't it? *wink

    I'd love to take you up on that offer if Archery wasn't already ditched, with no soon plans for a remake. Thanks though Lnomer.
    I hope someone does take you up on your offer.
    (I've got two other characters I'd like to make before going back to Archery) I'll try and look you up though if the offer still stands then.
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2016
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  10. wylwrk

    wylwrk Well-Known Member

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    I too have been and still would like to see archery get fixed but, to play devil's advocate I just had a thought.

    What would this server look like if archery actually was fixed?





    yo dawg we heard you like necros so we necro'd your necro so that when you necro you can necro.
  11. One

    One Well-Known Member
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    Probably something like this:
  12. Dun Scaith

    Dun Scaith Well-Known Member

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    I imagine on occasion only due to boredom or access to multiple accounts you might even see an archer sneak out of the woods and into a situation of actual use.
    Yes i know you don't have to stand toe to toe with the dreaded oGrE lOrD which I have seen posted in a few other threads. We all know; parry either negates that problem, jousting negates that problem and magery negates that problem like robocop on drugs, as seen above.

    Mages would stay mages, dexxers would stay dexxers, thieves would stay thieves and rp'ers would still use bows. *snicker

    It wouldn't look that different and bows would still be at a disadvantage. The main issue is that you'll never make an archer happy because they are already happy with fingering the bottom of the invisible peanut butter jar. "Its soOoOo Rich and deliciOoOous. trust me" "oOooOoh I knoOow" "The BOoOounty"

    Aside; I wish I knew a bit more about the Era to provide an actual solution, for now all I can contribute is the negation or contest to the arguments that I have seen that attempt to validate archery being a useful weapon choice. Maybe this is just how archery was during this time-frame?
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2016
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  13. PaddyOBrien

    PaddyOBrien Well-Known Member

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    Poisoned arrows please!
  14. One

    One Well-Known Member
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    My idea solution would be a situation in which, as Dun Scaith mentioned, dexxers stay dexxers. So perhaps raising the archery fire rate preferentially only at very high levels of dexterity and/or tactics. Instead of archer/mages operating exclusively at range I'd rather see dexxers (meaning no evaluating intelligence skill) who fire at range, land something akin to a crushing blow (random high damage shots) and then swoop in with a melee weapon for the kill shot if that's at all feasible.
  15. Dun Scaith

    Dun Scaith Well-Known Member

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    You have your cake One, but you can't eat it too. Dexxers would stay dexxers because any change they do make wouldn't be significant enough to convince a playstyle to change. Some might re-roll another toon, but they probably wouldn't change something that works to accommodate a fictional minor buff.

    If anything I'd imagine the powers that be would change fletching to do something a little more, which would pigeon hole archers into a build order that doesn't allow for greater versatility and should force the player to make another choice, the problem comes about that in doing so it then dismantles any form of regular archery.

    *The fire rate of bows at high dexterity is decent, that I will agree to. I used it a bunch, enough to know how much it wasn't my cup of tea.
    It will never be magery, it will never be taming, No one will ever splash a little archery in their build because it's useful.

    From what i've come across in previous threads, this is why archery can't have nice things. This is how you get ants!
    Don't allow archery to be the gateway drug to teleporting melee wankers in neon.
    Cast your poison, splash your magery. Or run up and cut the beast in your sights with your weapon swapping 'fun' archery/melee character, just know that it's crap and enjoy your invisible peanut butter. "SoOOo SmOoOooth"



    To redirect the conversation a bit, Parry still works.
    ~ i haven't come across any jewelry of reflect or teleporting, does it still exist during this period?
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2016
  16. One

    One Well-Known Member
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    Giving fletching an archery boost is an awesome idea.
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  17. PaddyOBrien

    PaddyOBrien Well-Known Member

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    Drugs are bad, mmkay?

    No they don't exist here, that was a t2a thing.
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  18. Dun Scaith

    Dun Scaith Well-Known Member

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    Aside from the other downside mentioned, it ain't era accurate.
    So there's also that. Which is probably worth two big scoops of invisible peanut butter.


    *How about this... Archery is your thing and you like it.
    So you want to see it do well and receive less trash talk. Because it's a "good" skill, that helps build a "strong" character.

    Lets talk about magery and the lammers that use it, and how much it stinks.

    How mages are totally Des Sanct'd & Uus Jux and don't even know how to An Mani a Kal Xen with a Por Corp Wis.
    I mean when was the last time you saw a good Kal In Ex for Rel Sanct'd sakes! We have to An Ort the Idea that magery is top tier skill.
    We have to Des Mani the thought that without it there's no Uus Mani in the game.
    How many spells do people actually use? what type of Uus Wis does it even take to play a mage?
    Sure you can Rel Por around, but I got feet, I got a horse dood. I don't need you. Magery, you're bullshit. You ain't nothin'.
    Sure you got An Lor Xen, but i got hiding bro, and stealth. Sure you got your Wis Quas, but i got my detect and you need me to even have a bonus.
    You can't Vas Yelm Rel yourself up a big hunk of ore, heck your Kal Vas Xen Yelm doesn't even drop anything. What a shame.
    I've got bandages for An Corp'n and In Mani'n and I've got my goddamn Chuck Norris special right here for your An Ex Por'n needs bro. You ain't nothin'!

    Dear magery, you're bullshit.
    Kal Ort Por.
    Kal Ort Poor.
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  19. PaddyOBrien

    PaddyOBrien Well-Known Member

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    can it be crunchy invisible peanut butter? :cool:

    I agree, not fond of magery myself in pvp. too overpowered.
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  20. Dun Scaith

    Dun Scaith Well-Known Member

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    Magery its worst skill in the game. "pffffffft" Never works anyways.

    It's always crunchy if you're using a heavy xbow.
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