Faction Silver Reward Ideas

Discussion in 'PvP Discussion' started by Genocide, Aug 13, 2016.

  1. Genocide

    Genocide Active Member
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    This entire system is setup to incentivize players to join factions for the PvP. However the rare aesthetic items, make some of your more trammel players want to join to look cool. But it comes at a cost. You can bless the items temporarily, but you’ll have to farm silver. This will increase the chances of players farming with faction characters. This is good for PK’s and roving/solo Factioners.

    All Items are Faction only and cannot be used by regular players. Runebooks are non accessible by other players, and cannot be recall/gated from by non faction characters. Non blessed/Crafted faction items can be looted by non faction players, but when equipped, will be destroyed. This gives non faction characters incentive to loot/sell back Faction items to the owner or highest bidder. Most people will pay the extra silver for the temporary bless on the faction item.


    I really like the idea of allowing a crafted Valorite Vanq be blessed for 7 days at a very high cost of silver. This will allow people to temporarily change the battle field from time to time as the price is attainable but not sustainable. Some type of platinum reward (small) for factions controlling cities for 30 days or more etc, gives a monthly payout to members. Please leave your ideas as well as your criticism below. I put this together yesterday and I'm sure there room for improvement. I would really like to see an increase of field pvp here which will bring in more outside players.

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jAyPuOhvBd7maE0UqPWEEO7ran2o29pYz2V140IgHPk/edit?usp=sharing
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  2. Keystone

    Keystone Well-Known Member

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    I support this message!
  3. Kane

    Kane Well-Known Member
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    Since you opened the door for criticism, your ideas are bad and you should feel bad. None of this will happen because SL is sitting on almost 1mil silver first of all, and no one wants SL to have nice things. Secondly, no one is going to try to farm silver considering that'd lure the dank nuggets back into action and we all know how much people love to cry about that. Also, you can already bless a valorite weapon so long as you have the hammer, a town and 1k silver and I for one won't try to de-value valorite runics any futher by allowing them to be craftable with silver considering it takes MONTHS of hard ass work to get a hammer already and they sell for next to nothing because they're only used in 0 risk situations (not unlike the one you're proposing).
  4. Genocide

    Genocide Active Member
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    Im not suggesting we be able to craft vanqs. Just 100k silver to be able to buy the deed to faction bless it for a week. Im sure you guys would all have some nice shinnies at first with that 1 mil silver, but you have to keep making silver to sustain it/bless it. Or you can roll around with it unblessed.
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  5. Kane

    Kane Well-Known Member
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    We don't need to make more items bless-able, we have enough trammel. Let's make felucca great again.
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  6. napo

    napo Well-Known Member

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    Not era accurate and I don't have a particular desire to give people a no risk card to hit me with their broken weapons.
    If you're going to use a weapon that can kill me in two shots I should be able to take it away from you when you die.
  7. Mandevu

    Mandevu Well-Known Member

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    omg stfu already
  8. Cynic

    Cynic Well-Known Member
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    This argument has been had, many times. This argument has never lead to anything constructive. People are bitter at each other and can't put that aside to have amicable conversations regarding anything relating to pvp, ever.

    You gave it a good ol' college try but, realistically, this thread was dead before it was even written.
  9. Genocide

    Genocide Active Member
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    Hey, I'm not giving up hope. Im sure you guys have ideas, so feel free to mention them or any other changes. Its okay to say what you like as well. This isnt a final draft, these are just ideas people, so lets hear yours!
  10. Meradin

    Meradin Well-Known Member

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    This.
  11. Grizzle

    Grizzle New Member

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    Newish player here. The argument of "we don't need more trammel" is too black and white, and IMO black and white is often not the optimal path, just the ideologically most pure.

    Here's the question -- Would you rather have a pure felucca environment with fewer PvP actives, or a slightly Trammelized one with more PvP actives. What are we optimizing for? Ideology or a funner place to fight/play?

    On Aesthetics: This one I don't understand the pushback on. I don't see any downside to faction-specific aesthetic items since it doesn't affect the state of PvP but does incentivize involvement. Could even just rely on CBDs still to bless, not silver. If you leave a faction, you can't wear it anymore. Who cares if existing guilds/factions already have a stockpile of silver. If that causes jealousy, suck it up because at the end of the day you get a richer gaming experience at the cost of someone else temporarily having things you don't have (that don't make them any more effective at killing you).

    On Blessed Weapons: Agree that creating valorite vanqs with silver seems too much. A high silver cost (not 100k, but not 1k either) to temporarily bless normal magic weapons would be better. Here is why:

    1. Doesn't cheapen the value of high-end runics.

    2. Does make it easier for the dex build to be fielded in factions with less barrier to entry for new players / poorer players / players that don't have tons of time to play. It's easier to buy/find one nice vanq, farm some silver (thematical faction monsters) and bless a wep temporarily than it is to farm, die and lose your weapon and spend the entire week of limited playtime looking for another weapon worth of fielding.

    3. As a result of #2, more diversity in faction fights, without the complaints that everyone is getting two-shotted. Quicker bounce-back for dex builds to get back in the fight means more fights for everyone.

    4. If more silver farmers leads to a resurgence of PKs, fine. Why is that a problem? Theoretically, faction guilds will be larger, more organized and able to roll in mass too to put up a fight.

    Now if the idea of more normal-vanq-wielding dexers is too scary, then I guess this doesn't make sense. Or if the idea that you rich people don't get to loot a "cheap" normal magic vanq is not "felucca" enough a price to pay to have higher involvement in PvP, then I guess this doesn't make sense either.

    Hell, or the idea of "semi-bless" -- X% chance that a blessed weapon would still be lootable.

    Do you want to have pure Felucca, or do you want have more involvement in PvP? Lots of grey area to play with.
  12. Kane

    Kane Well-Known Member
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    Yeah people said ctf would bring more world pvp too, instead it killed it. You can already bless faction weapons so that suggestion is only for not having to MAKE the weapon for it to be blessed, which will not do the economy for runice any good, and the economy for them is already bad. People will go farm silver or what have you until SL starts destroying people and then they will call for bans and talk about how unfair it is that they have to subject themselves to such hellish conditions to farm silver to bless thsir items. As far as diversity, this has been tried before but ultimarely it'll just be people with multiple chars in different factions all trying to beat sl with mass numbers, been that way for years now.
  13. Genocide

    Genocide Active Member
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    Grizzle has the right attitude.

    Kane - You cant compare CTF to Faction. One is open world, one isnt. If your only reason for not wanting this to happen is because "SL is will start destroying people and im a hard ass pvper", stfu, and come back when you have something productive to say, or at least a legitimate reason for not liking something.
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  14. Kane

    Kane Well-Known Member
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    Why don't you come back when you actually start pvping? I haven't seen height nor hair of you since you joined factions. Maybe you should get a feel for the system as it is before you start proposing changes that effectively destroy the demand for smit bod rewards. Val hammer swings already don't sell because they are only used in safe areas, we make everywhere a safe area for them and they will be worthless since everyone already has one and will never lose it. There are enough incentives or factions, the biggest of which is a field where your enemy cannot be helped by outside sources. Pvp should be your incentive, you can have pretty little ponies and bless your weapons if you so choose to.
  15. Grizzle

    Grizzle New Member

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    I understand why CTF would cause a drop in open world PvP, but it's also comparing a freight truck to a toy car in terms of what's being suggested. Agree that incentives exist already. Just don't understand the harm in increasing them, even just starting with aesthetic items that have no effect on PvP.

    Not sure how creating a way to create or bless "moderate" faction weapons that are not high-end runics would disrupt the value of high-end runics. Valorite runics are only used in Trammel instances as it stands, and that demand source will continue unabated. The main runic market I can see getting hurt with what I'm suggesting would be gold runics, but I don't think the value of those are what is keeping people up at night.

    Just give dexers a way to get back in the game quickly, because dexers will die in fights. Dexers are easier to play and get started than heal/stun mages (tho probably still hard to master), so all it does is enable newer players a faster "in" to being part of factions. I'm sure you'll still smoke them, and that's fine. Let's just get more people involved. More kills for you, more people in the game.

    If Telamon / server wants to promote faction play and less griefy PKing, then let's be open about thinking about ways to optimize it...
  16. Kane

    Kane Well-Known Member
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    No one is going to use silver to bless gold runics lol. People drop gold and agapite all the time as it is, since the value has dropped so far (agapite weapons cost 100k easy a year ago and sell for not even half that now). People are going to bless their valorite runics and they're not going to try to pvp any differently with it, they'll run into houses if they don't have a huge number advantage, and not bother to come out when other teams are on. I know you haven't been here to experience the system but I've been active in factions for over 2 years here and I know how things go down. You're not ADDING any incentives here, these incentives already exist, you're just asking to NOT have to go through the work to get a runic hammer to have blessed runic weapons and that's absolutely ridiculous. You're literally asking to DESTROY the market for runics so you can just bless the same one over and over again. What's the point of that except people who want all the reward with 0 risk? You want to run with faction blessed valorites? Run your hammer out and end up with a box full of valorite weapons to use in CTF or whatever like everyone has been doing for years. This will NOT reduce the pking, when SL hops on and destroys the factioners they will log on their reds and take their frustrations out on the general populous because they can't hack it against a solid team with good field tactics. I've seen the rise and fall of so many super-zerg faction attempts, at least twice a year, and they always just end up with butthurt would-be pvpers out ganking the hell out of blues to feel superior again.
  17. Grizzle

    Grizzle New Member

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    I'll defer to your background on how factions and pvp has run here historically because I don't have experience to speak deeply there.

    To be clear though, my ask is not the same as Genocide's. He was asking about blessing valorite runics -- which is a top 10%er type of ask.

    My ask is about blessing moderate weapons, like vanqs or golds for the noobs / newer / poorer of us -- which is a 90%er type of ask. I understand full well that the people that you usually play might go straight to valorite runics, but that's the minority here, not the majority.

    Even if Agapite weps are 100k each, do you think the other 90% of the server has the cash to replenish those after each death, especially if we are still learning how to PvP, especially since faction fights basically will guarantee us frequent deaths, and especially since once its known I'm running around with agapite weapons, I'm target #1 to kill and loot?

    My ask isn't anything being currently broken, just about making it slightly easier for us to get involved. If none of this happens, I'll still join factions and roll in with a GM weapon and do meh damage to barbed armor, since I will probably die and lose all my PvM vanqs that I earned in the last 3 months in about 3 days. I can live with that as much as it sucks.
  18. wylwrk

    wylwrk Well-Known Member

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    You shouldn't be able to bless a gahddam thing here!
  19. Kane

    Kane Well-Known Member
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    It's already not hard to get involved, if you're using weapons you're already doing it wrong. You will find very quickly that dexxers are underwhelming here and mages rule the scene with an iron fist. Make a stun mage and go risk 100 ea reg and some leather on death like everyone else, you'll be better off. I don't care about blessed runics in factions as it stands, go ahead and put in the work, you can still bless gold and agapite on the cheap (1k silver and 1 swing from your runic hammer, which is pretty darn cheap). I simply will not endorse anything that promotes things like weapons being eternal in the open world.
  20. Grizzle

    Grizzle New Member

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    Yeah my thoughts are faction-specific, not open world. I think my issues are as much with the balance of templates (mage vs. dex, etc.) as with anything else, which is more an issue with era I think. Was just looking for a way for factions to make things a bit more diverse.

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