I don't play factions. I simply don't have the time for it. Too much to do on this server and too much to do in real life. Perhaps i'll get to it once I have accomplished other things, though. Anywho, I seem to hear a lot of people saying that the number of participants aren't high enough to make it work. Would if be more viable if the number of factions was decreased? I'm just curious. I know that kind of gets more back to Order/Chaos, but if the numbers aren't there, perhaps focusing the players a bit instead of spreading them to the winds would help things? If participation increases, the old "new" factions could be re-enabled? Idunno...just curious as to what people think.
I'd recommend reading the various Faction threads that have happened here already for some information and opinions on that. There are several things that I feel limit the desirability of factions. Most of it has to do with configuration aspects that favor much larger groups or longer play times. For example, to capture a town sigil you need to defend it in your base for 7 hours depending on how many times that timer is reset by opponents taking it from you. This could wind up taking significantly longer should there be a fight for them. Considering town control lasts for 3 days, that means you need to spend 7+ hours defending sigils with your team every 3 days, in order to stay in control. While I've been in some fun fights over them in the past, most times it dwindles down to a few stragglers hoping they don't get zerged for the sigil in the last hour. Or everyone goes to sleep and hopes the enemy doesn't just come steal them all when they're sleeping. I've proposed reducing the capture timer to a more reasonable 3-4 hour hold time, resulting in an extended full week of town control. This may sound easy and excessive but I think it would suit the available play time of responsible adults more than a system designed for no-life teenagers playing on their parents' wallets over the summer. In short, there's a lot of things that could be adjusted in Factions to make it more enjoyable overall. I personally love the base defense factor but can hardly pull a few hours of serious (not just helping/chatting at work) game time per week without feeling like I'm neglecting my responsibilities. Reducing the amount of Factions will only force enemies to pick a side with players they don't want to play with. I think to suit the more casual PvP scene, having outside interference restricted for O/C or having an 'O/C flagging' system for anyone who interferes O/C combat would provide a wonderful avenue of consensual combat here.
I'm going to be a real straight shooter here. The current population is more than fine for factions. The problem isn't one of population. It's that the community is shit. New pvpers that arrive are told that they need to join up with the TB/CoM/Minax zerg and fight SL. They're told that if they don't, they'll be killed and hassled by everyone that isn't SL even if they're on blues. We're not really that much different, we don't threaten anyone but it is pretty much open season on anyone who is in an enemy faction, but we are the same in the sense that we kill our enemies and give them a hard time even if they aren't on oranges. And it is absolutely true that if you join SL, you will be hated by everyone. This includes pve guilds like O^S, and extends beyond the game into chat channels and onto the forums. There are exceptions to "everyone hates us" but generally speaking any new player in SL gets the clamps from most of the rest of the community. The people complaining about lack of action are the overwhelming majority of people complaining about lack of action, in part because they're allied with mostly everybody. Minax and CoM don't fight outside of a pre-arranged fight here or there, SL is their only source of no holds barred field fighting. We only show up when we feel like it, so there's nowhere to go for spontaneous pvp if you're one of them. Those of us in SL can find fights pretty much any time we want to, but there's usually a lot of waiting and playing grabass while both sides decide if the fight is fair enough that they want to fight it. There have been times when we've had 5 dudes and CoM has had 5 dudes and CoM won't show because they want more people to fight us with. It's really a matter of everyone hating each other and being so afraid to lose that they won't fight even though there are two factions online looking for fights. I'm not pointing fingers, we're sometimes guilty of this too. To be honest, there are a lot of bastards here that I hate and I would rather see them stuck home bitching about how they can't find fights instead of going into a fight with a bad team and giving them a chance at winning. And that's why factions isn't working right now. It's not because of the system, it's because of the community. Soon there will be a parade of people showing up to go "no, napo is crazy, we are honorable warriors who are not allied cross-faction and SL is a bunch of cheating jerkfaces and a no skill zerg who won't fight fair and hide cuz they can't win" But that's not really how it is. The problem is that everyone in the pvp community pretty much hates each other and can't agree on common rules of engagement for faction fighting.
I pretty much agree with napo except for one thing, which is that I don't think that the community is shit. There's a number of reasons why LORD MES and the Shadowlords are at the top of the food chain, but it is primarily because they have a group of dedicated people who have worked to get to the top. I don't like some of them, but I can still give them credit where credit is due. I don't think anyone here could really argue that they haven't put in the time or the hours to get to where they're at. I don't think the community is shit. I just think there's a lack of interest in it for some people, and for others there is a sense of social anxiety to being in it. I....play Ultima to craft crap, collect crap, or to annoy people for teh lulz. Factions sorta doesn't interest me too much, it just feels like too much work. That's just me, I can't speak for why other people don't care about factions...though I would suspect that most people who "PvP" are more interested in red / blue than order / chaos over factions. The guys who are in Shadowlords are somewhat of an exception to that rule as far as I can tell. Also, napo, I would show up to tell you that you're crazy regardless of what you've got to say.
There's nothing straight shooter about pointing fingers at the community for the same things you practice yourself. Factions isn't working right now because there's nothing to work for in Factions. There's no reason to go out and hold your reagent bag tight because you know half a dozen zerglings are waiting with bated breath on the mic. If it weren't SL, it would be whomever the next largest Faction is, and so on. There's nothing to fight for so why bother? Bragging rights are high school shit and as a result, that's all you see in the field. Schoolyard slapfights and a lot of running. If it were worthwhile to take the risk, people wouldn't get bored and throw in the towel after a few weeks and try to join the biggest Faction. Personally, I stopped Factioning for various time constraints and home office configuration, but the most important one is that I find it much more enjoyable to know that I'm not giving Liberation the satisfaction of killing me fairly in field combat. I'll let the grudge go eventually but there's no good reason to just yet. So while the community may be taking the blame for not being zerg-food, I daresay it's the lack of motivation to take on a force that's willing to go to any lengths to get kills, no matter how illicit or embarrassing.
I guess I should have been a little more specific. I think it's the faction community and certain parts of the pvp community that are shit. The people who aren't interested and the RPers are definitely the better half of the UOR community. Your whole post approaches the issue from the viewpoint that SL are zergers who are "willing to go to any lengths to get kills, no matter how illicit or embarrassing". Until you can muster up the civility and the objectivity to acknowledge that at the very least everyone is like this, there's really no point in discussing this with you. You're misinformed and you believe the bullshit that the part of the community that is zealously anti-SL has fed you.
I'm not sure about the rest of Minax, but I assure you myself and sandro, when we're around, will most certainly attack ANY opposing factioners including CoM. I think the issue is that this playerbase simply isn't one of a 'pvp oriented' background. Most the remaining UO pvpers aren't here on this server. That isn't to say that the playerbase we have can learn to pvp, but i think they just lack the desire or aren't aware of how to go about acquiring the necessary knowledge to become a competent pvper. Another issue is that most of the remaining UO playerbase are well past their youthful prime when this game had a lot of 'younger' players who had much more time to play. An OSI playerbase that housed a large % of teenage kids who had much more time to spare, is now made up of collegiate and career based individuals who simply don't have the time they once had. I could be wrong..
What about TB? Do you fight them? It occurs to me that Minax and TB have characters in both factions (you are a great example of this as you have characters in both factions, and I suspect your excuse is as weak as 'but my friends are there'.) And CoM and TB have members in both factions. And this really helps illustrate Napo's point that those people that would like to pvp have allied with so much of the pvp population that there is nothing left for them to do but throw purple pots at jake in CTF.
I made it fairly clear that everyone are zergers when I said "If it weren't SL, it would be whomever the next largest Faction is, and so on.". You seem to have missed that part in attempt to ignore the reference to TT/SLs abuse of bugs and attempts to abuse bugs in events. In yet another level of misunderstanding and brazen assumptions, the so-called zealously anti-SL community has no need to share their food. I came right from the belly of the beast where I specifically did not condone or agree with the actions that I vaguely referenced in the segment of my post you chose to quote. While Mes can do his very best to lie about the nature of my departure from SL, you all know full well it was disagreement with Liberation and overall my distaste for what most of the group chose to do when not Factioning. You and Mes have both clearly stated that you didn't care about how you got your kill on HateCrime in that house. That's not your entire game but it is a shining example of the lengths you, and other players, will go to just to get a kill. If that isn't enough, you now take on a hypocritical stance regarding what others do within the rules, to win events. lol TB doesn't exist. The only active TB right now are probably ebola's alts and everyone knows he's CoM and TB. Maybe Pax is still in there too but it's not like you'll fight him without 3:1 odds. lol Mandevu has purpose to be in both factions that you don't understand yet, but it's good to know you're still watching everyone so closely, Mes Holmes.
No, your post implies that we are the current biggest faction and most prolific zerg. It approaches the issue entirely from that frame of mind. This isn't true, it's simply propaganda. Everyone zergs. Currently factions is us vs the three other factions that are allied but claim not to be. Some of them (like Roman) don't fight each other but aren't technically "allied" so they claim it's not us vs them. It still is. Looking at this and other threads, I see that there really is no hope of civility. If you haven't noticed, the pvp scene on this server is a sinking ship. If things continue as they are, what do you see the future being like? Getting hung up over shit in the past is not productive. We all have a laundry list of shit that other people have done that we don't like. The people you tirelessly defend don't exactly have clean hands either.
I have a char I recently put in TB because I planned on training a group of inexperienced pvpers, making them into a solid group, and hopefully having them as a viable opponent for us to fight. And I still intend to do this. I chose TB because it is, from what I have seen, the smallest and least active amongst the faction groups. My characters name is Ramona and if you have EVER seen her on the field let me know. But to answer your question, yes, we would fight tb as well, but to this day we have only ran into sl and com, both of which we will openly attack. Hc had a char in tb, but I had nothing to do with that. I'm sorry if a lot of people have teamed up against yall, but I definitely do not have a bias as to who I attack. It wasn't but a couple months ago we saw com on the field and we killed several of them.
While I don't get to faction fight as much as I would want, the times I do go out I've never seen any factions teaming with each other as one giant alliance. This is just more propaganda. If by alliance you mean that if Min and CoM are fighting and SL shows up we'll stop fighting each other to fight you, then yes, I've seen that happen. Ask yourself this, if SL was fighting CoM and myself or bart just happened to show up wouldn't you guys want to change targets too? Just for a few minutes? I think you would. We've been in fights with CoM in glow and a pack of you guys came in to snipe a kill on me too. To be honest I think it boils down to a lot of us have friends regardless of our faction affiliation. I can CTF or PK with certain people who are CoM or TB and then have no qualm in attacking them during a faction fight. Just because we're in enemy factions doesn't mean I have to personally hate you.
As I've defended you and yours on occasion when the topic is suitable. I speak out in defense of anything I support as just and right. If things continue as they are, I see more people getting trained up for combat and SL still grinding axes about Sandro and other useless shit that has no bearing at all on PvP. As others have said here, I don't carry Faction heat into every other aspect of the game. Much like I don't carry my grievances with Bart's PKing practice into CTF parties or PvMing or BoD trading. So while I detest the shady practices that made it easier for me to part company with SL, it doesn't mean in the least that I can't get along with them in other facets of the game. I just won't be shocked if I see bugs being abused again and better still, I won't feel like I'm associated with it.
not one that I experience, but I don't spend much time casting reactive armor so I doubt I'll encounter it.
I didn't bring up the stuff with sandro. I actually didn't bring up anything specific from the past in any of my posts in this thread, they have all been from the point of view that I think people need to grow up and get past the bullshit if the pvp community on this server is going to move forward. Every one of your posts approaches the topic from the viewpoint that we are wrong and the side that you are representing is right. Here you are saying you don't carry faction heat, but in one of these threads you talked about how you enjoy pursing your grudge against Liberation and feel no need to drop it. You're the one constantly preaching about old grievances, bugs abused in the past, or things we've complained about in the past (like the shit with sandro) The fact that you approach every one of these conversations as if you are right about everything and the person you are talking to is wrong about everything is why talking to you about these things with you is relatively pointless. Worse than that, you're actually an obstacle in the way of what needs to happen - which is everyone setting the bullshit aside - because you come into every one of these threads running your mouth about grudges, bug abuse, and all kinds of shit that is in the past that needs to be left behind. I strongly disagree with your view of the future, it should be obvious to anyone that the pvp scene here is stagnating and that the two sides pretty much hate each other and have barricaded themselves into their own little corners and refuse to interact in anything other than forum battles - which you exacerbate by showing up to be inflammatory.
My grudge with Liberation has nothing to do with what faction he is in and everything to do with the person he is, thank you. I do speak with conviction and if you have something to say that was worth reconsidering my opinion for, I would take it as such. However, you bring nothing to the table but excuses about a bad community and complaints about people forming teams in team games. So while you feel I should let go of the past that speaks to the dishonorable actions of your group, I'll let that go when you all stop being so mad that I decided to commit my time to CTF instead of Factions, after choosing to remove myself from your company. I do it out of spite, intentionally. Not really sorry about it and yeah, it's a grudge that I have openly stated I don't hold often or for very long. You all claim to get all the fights you want every day, so why are you even wasting your breath talking about CTF? I approach every conversation with eyes wide open and see lots of babble and very little to be taken seriously. "I see the future Micky, and there's no death, cuz you and I are angels."
