It's sad that thieves are christmas event outsiders.

Discussion in 'Renaissance Discussion' started by BlackEye, Dec 21, 2014.

  1. BlackEye

    BlackEye Well-Known Member
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    I recently managed to sneak into a frozen continent event gate (it took me some stealth attempts through several gates and alot of hiding and waiting...).
    Being in, I was really excited and thought this will be fun. Finally, I happened to see some of the christmas event contents. And definitely it would be profitable. Why not?

    Well here is the sad reality I had to face:

    1. You can't steal in the event area. (Ok, this is really lame.)

    Then I thought that I have to rely on other means and so I waited until one of the tamers dropped with their loot on them... and I found out that...

    2. everything is kinda blessed and there is nothing to loot out of corpses. (Ok, and this is really non-felucian style (not to say the big bad T-word))

    3. Hcoins (and platin too ?) drop directly into the bags of the players, or? So I can't even be faster while looting, which would make me visible anyway.

    So yeah, in conclusion, thieves are missing most of the december/christmas fun and are totally social outsiders (even more than normally). Even when you are able to sneak into the events, you can't do anything that defines a thief (stealing from monsters is NOT thieving in the sense of UO). Maybe I could cause some havoc at the chests, that I have read about. But who knows, probably they are unaccessible and only available for the person with the key? I don't even know where they are placed in every instance. It's not like an everyday feat to be able to sneak into the events (ergo no experience on the positions).

    It's just a sad month... for me, other thieves and in the end for felucia.
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  2. El Horno

    El Horno Well-Known Member
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    You can wreck it at the chests. They have the key but the second they unlock it its free game and I guarantee if your clicking the chest madly you will have it open before they do since they are busy fumbling with the keys. You can also enter the event gates as a ghost, making it even easier to tag along on events then having to stealth in.

    Everything else is spot on in terms of being anti-thief.
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  3. Cynic

    Cynic Well-Known Member
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    The events are designed to be anti PK/thief, and they should be.

    However, you can take people to the cleaners if you're a proactive thief and looking for them in dungeons. The town invasions are a great place as well, which you have bragged about in another thread.
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  4. BlackEye

    BlackEye Well-Known Member
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    The zookeeper quest isn't that way for example. And even though the events are instanced (thus being anti PK/thief by definition if you are not completely out of your mind to host them in public), it had to be made extra safe (idiot-proof) with the additional mechanics I mentioned.

    Town invasions are great. But they are random based happenings and happen on US prime times (and being an european based player, I am already wasting many european nights in front of my PC cause I love this shard and game so much). But that's not relevant and definitely not Chris' fault. He did his very best for everybody during halloween for example.

    Basically all I am saying is, it's a very exclusionary month for thieves. PKs aren't that much excluded. With the adjustment to higher drop rates in dungeons, they actually have a high time right now while hunting in dungeons.
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  5. El Horno

    El Horno Well-Known Member
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    While you have some good points, the fact that you can enter the event gates as a ghost, remain unkillable and just sit at the chests for a free 40 hcoins plus rares, makes me think these aren't horribly thief unfriendly. Very few things can be done to keep a ghost with the desire to join you from coming.
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  6. BlackEye

    BlackEye Well-Known Member
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    That's a realy interesting suggestion and proofs that not all hope is lost (you may apply for apprenticeship in 5D). No, but really, I have no clue how to find people at exactly the right moment when they are about to start a quest. They normally have to make silly mistakes, like open gates or announce it somewhere... But sure, maybe with a suffisticated network of ghosts (which all have to be skilled thieves) waiting at the houses of known event players... Let me think about it (naaaah).

    There are also everywhere one-way gates in the event zones? Does that mean, you can't just recall out or can you recall out of the event? If you can't, you can forget to ever get away on foot with the chest loot. Plus, everybody that reads this post, will probably cast a simple reveal from now on.
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  7. Cynic

    Cynic Well-Known Member
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    Why wouldn't you be able to hunt in dungeons too? You have tracking just like everyone killing these dungeon mobs do.

    1. Recall into dungeon, track for players/animals/human npcs.
    2. Stalk the players or wait by a boss mob until a player comes by.
    3. Do your nasty thieving thing.

    You have the chance to steal a scroll (250k+), coins (4k+) or the chance at a rare (700k+).. Never have I seen a consistent opportunity for a thief to make out with an easy steal like this and make a HUGE profit in doing so.

    Thieving shouldn't be designed to provide you with a constant target that yields a high payout. Thieving should be a long process where you stalk your prey for their loots. Just like you did to the guy you took the gold runic axe from. You could have spent just as much time in a dungeon and stolen a scroll for 4x the profit of that silly axe.
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  8. El Horno

    El Horno Well-Known Member
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    These quests are usually done by groups and I see people advertising public scroll runs almost daily in IRC. It is a safe bet that the stables will be used by some of those in attendence and as such they will be gating their pets to where-ever the meeting ground is. There aren't too many stables.
    You cannot reveal ghosts, not can you lock them out of the house. Only a table wall would work and even that would need to be lifted in order for the invited attendees to get through. You cannot attack others in the events so you could loot all their chests and sit there and rub it in their faces and there is nothing they could do about it except get bitter. You will even go to the event center after so you can safely bank your loot.


    BTW I know this because we had a ghost enter a scroll I opened inside my locked house. He dragged spawn and made our lives a living hell, fortunately he didn't think to loot the chests. The only way I could have known was to kill an alt and check for ghosts but even then that would only mean I couldn't run the scroll as the ghost could have followed us wherever we decided to move our location to. I suppose we could have checked for a ghost, then gated pets to a stable and stabled them, then recalled quickly to another stable and claimed and gated to another secure location and recheck for ghosts.
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  9. BlackEye

    BlackEye Well-Known Member
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    Cynic, that is the first thing I did. So far it didn't work out. I stalked so many elf hunts and got a plat and the loot of a blue tamer who was killed by reds. So yeah, it is working. Somehow. However, your suggestion tells me that you don't have experience in my craft. Dungeons are one of the hardest stealing surroundings any thief on foot (and you have to be on foot with that ethy mounting making you visible) can face. But you know what, that all sounds too much like whining, so I will stop right here. I think, I made my points and I will try harder to get something reasonable out of this christmas events. Maybe I am wrong at all or just not skilled enough.

    El Horno, I never witnessed such announcements and didn't find anybody gating at a stable so far. But you are right. If a ghost-thief gets into the instance (and knows where the chests are), he might be able to easily acquire the hcoins. I will certainly try that out and tell anybody that it was El Hornos brilliant idea. :D
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  10. Cynic

    Cynic Well-Known Member
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    upload_2014-12-21_14-43-13.png

    Ghosts have to physically walk through a gate and cannot double click. Open a gate in the center tile of chests then everyone else going can just double click the gate.
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  11. El Horno

    El Horno Well-Known Member
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    I will not feel too bad as I've tried telling as many people I can to start checking for ghosts.


    GREAT advice cynic. This is how I will open the rest of my event gates.
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  12. Mes

    Mes Well-Known Member

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    I just want to say you have a fair point and this is a felucca server so it is a bit awkward for events to be designed this way(and literally be in trammel). I suspect it was designed this way because prior events have been very dramatic and Chris was trying to find a hassle-free way to let people enjoy some christmas content. I think before a few days ago you may have been able to steal if you could get in these events (although there was a gold glove, attacking players was fully possible.) Some of us were even able to jailbreak the event and enter some other people's events, but decided that there would be too much drama if we pked anyone or joined their events.

    I think the intention is for you to get your stealing/pking in at the overland events and dungeons as Cynic said(of which there is plenty to do, I don't know why you'd consider that to only be for pks.)
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  13. Dalavar

    Dalavar Well-Known Member
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    There's also only so much map space built out. You could put it in green acres, but you'd have to build the entire instance from scratch. The AMIB areas are tiny, but I suspect they took a ton of time to build.
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  14. BlackEye

    BlackEye Well-Known Member
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    First, thanks for the very interesting input. It's good to talk about that stuff as it provides ideas.

    Mes, I don't rule dungeons out. I take every gate I see, and they frequently lead to dungeons. It's just not a very succesful place for classic thieves. I can't obviously bark in on a horse and try to do a directed steal. So I stealth, waiting for the mob to drop and look what comes out of it. Like I told, sometimes I am able to get a plat, sometimes I loot dropped corpses. But in general, I rely on gates for the elf spawns. I can't just run around in dungeons. I would be PKed or ppl would recall away. An ethy would help a bit, but for what intention? The only way to do a clean steal is to follow stealthed through gates, and that I am definitely doing.

    And then there is the problem to get away. You guys obviously never tried to get away on foot in a dungeon. Cities and forests are great for that, but dungeons are hell. Plus, every elf hunter has a tracker around. There are some geometries where you can get away in a dungeon. For example when crossing levels, or teleporting to some unreachable places. But that's rare.
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  15. Cynic

    Cynic Well-Known Member
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    I wouldn't be against the hide and ride being turned on for ethy's. I think that would solve alot of your issues.

    The whole having to stalk people thing, and people not making it very easy for you to do, is not a valid complaint. This is why thieves aren't everywhere, because it's just not easy nor very lucrative on a growing server. Snapdragon took the trade to a different level and learned to stalk people for weeks before setting out to exploit their weakness.

    I know you stalk stables now too, which is great and IMO much better than banks. However, the thieves that have come and gone before you have hardened some of us to the point of paranoia and we take crazy steps to avoid being taken advantage of by thieves.

    I know I just don't detect hidden anymore, I track too. Some people go overboard to avoid PKs as well, I've seen the elder gazer hallway in shame stacked with tables and blockables on every tile.

    I know it's a felluca server but I really don't think it needs to cater to those looking to take advantage of others. If it's out of era I would understand the anger, but these events are unique to the server and require a unique approach with some unique rules.

    Just rejoice in the fact that you're the only class that can really take advantage of people even within guards, especially if you use some tactics in doing so. You made out with more loot from a recent town invasion than I did while participating in a traditional manner. I see nothing wrong. If you're playing a thief 100% of the time and expect that class to be the bread winner then you're going to end up angry. I don't rely on my tinker to make me my money, you shouldn't rely on a thief to make you yours.
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  16. BlackEye

    BlackEye Well-Known Member
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    I am really not relying on alot of gold or complaining about the influx of GP. It's great when people are paranoid and cautious (in my opinion they absolutely aren't on this shard, except some elite oldschool players maybe), and one has to work for a good heist.
    The OP was simply about the feeling that my hands are bound tight even when I manage to sneak into an highlight aspect of the event (instanced areas). And this event is dominating december (and probably the next decembers also, and there might be many more instanced events coming). You also asked me, why I don't like to hit the dungeons and I told you why (but I definitely try). And you are right, this would very probably change, when mounting ethys would be possible without a reveal.

    And there were some great ideas here that I didn't consider before. Even though I probably won't apply these tactics, others might be succesful with them.
  17. Jupiter

    Jupiter Well-Known Member

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    You can be a thief 355 days out of the year, these events are designed for community participation. If you're sore that you aren't able to be a thief in the actual event then I'd argue you're limiting yourself.

    I wholly support the thief class, and encourage you to perfect your class outside the event.


    For instance:
    Go steal a scroll from somebody in a dungeon and hold it for ransom. Get a band of thieves to sneak into the event and try to loot the chest first.

    Also I'm not sure, but you could be the first to see if the chests can be pick locked before the keys are obtained.

    I also disagree that this event is only pk friendly. Pks aren't allowed to murder inside the event either. However the number of potential targets are significantly increased in dungeons.

    Good luck with your trade and I hope to see you open up a freshly stolen scroll.
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  18. Vlar

    Vlar Well-Known Member

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    People have to go through thieves, reds and monsters to get the rare scrolls so it's not totally Trammel. Also the fact the action takes place in trammel isn't really choice it's more what was possible in terms of the canvas Chris had to work with.
  19. Chris

    Chris Renaissance Staff
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    Admitedly these events were designed with a more trammel aspect (they take place in trammel after all).

    However historically our previous events followed the same logic, they were just not player initiated.

    This event however has two parts.

    The overworld hunting aspect, which is governed by the rules of Felucca.

    And the events which are covered by a trammel ruleset as they are designed to be a player vs monster challenge.

    Compared to the classic UO mechanics of login for a bag, or click santa for a ticket these can be seen as quite different.

    However all this is changing is the amount of things handed out to players, vs say a login rewards system.

    So inherently with less items given out for minimal effort, more effort has to be put into finding things to steal.

    That said over time we will work to remove all aspects of Trammel from these type of events. But for now this is an experiment of a completely new type of holiday system that was 99% free of staff involvement while rewarding the commitment of our players over a 21 day period.

    We have monitored it closely and will adapt systems like this to appeal to all players over time.

    We currently have a massive rogue endgame system in the works that will provide thieves with a simliar challenge system that these events provide player vs monster class players.

    Overall our goal is to reward the efforts and dedication of our players who are active, who play, and make this world a great place. We will always be interested in ideas and suggestions that benefit active play.
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2014
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  20. The hound

    The hound Active Member

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    Am I missing something? Ghosts shouldn't be able to loot from chests. u do mean u have to go in as a ghost then rez elsewhere then stealth to chests ?

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