Political Positioning MAP

Discussion in 'PvP Discussion' started by Xavant_BR, Mar 7, 2019.

  1. Xavant_BR

    Xavant_BR Well-Known Member

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    Hi guys i am looking for a brave guy that is not afraid of expose himself and help me to understand how each group is positioned according his values and affinity.
    Recently i start to give my first steps on pVp lands and i discover a few things:
    1- There is a lot of people that have some kind of anonymous pvp chars. For me is still hard to remember who is who, but this is ok, no problem.
    2- There is a kind of "cold war" between different groups. We have a bipolar division(with some small satellites guilds around the main references) or is a multipolar ecosystem? for me is important to know because i like to have relations with a good amount of people and sometimes i saw that some of them get uncomfortable when are together.
    3- Pwn, Anarchy, Iderp, Sof, Sol, KoP and else... there are more relevant guild on this scene? and how they are grouped? they could be classified in white side and dark side of force?

    I was thinking that could be genial someone that understand this politics build som graphic, very visual with the relation between guilds like this examples i am posting here... i hope someone could help me with that with no preocupation of expose someone or some conflict...

    We could determinate the axes for example: Traditional Groups/new groups. or Protagonists/coadjutants or dark side of force/bright side....
    if someone wants to help me to build without reveal his identity don't worry, send me a pm and i create this chart based on his ideas.

    perceptual-map.jpg
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  2. Erza Scarlet

    Erza Scarlet Well-Known Member
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    To make it super simple you can split up guilds into theyr factions, order/chaos or even more simpler red vs blue.

    its gona be a long summary though.

    First things first though: i am under the impression that no guild / group is truely innocent as its hard to keep track of 15 chars/account.
    People have secret alts or even secret guilds which can make people / chars quite hard to identify sometimes.

    There will be guilds however that will not, under any circumstance, kill you for no reason.

    We shall call them "Blue Guilds":
    Guilds like KoS, H*O and P'S are amongst the most trustworthy Guilds on the list here.

    I will also count my guild (-S-) to the guilds of the "light side" it, however i enforce the policy of keeping things seperated.
    Its an anti pk guild, and under no circumstances would i allow an -S- character to PK an innocent (however "law enforcement" is totally ok, lets say killing a known griefer or enemy of the guild and even going red for it) or beeing used as a scout for PKing. That said, i wont permit members (or myself) to have SEPERATED characters (reds) that wont be, under any circumstance, touched, avenged or even rezzed by an -S- char.

    There are more to the list of "blue guilds" but those are the most relevant at the current state in my opinion.

    Neutral Guilds: TnT, PwN, Iderp, O^S
    screw with them, and they will screw with you, sums it up pretty well ^^

    Red Guilds:
    CPU... pretty much kills everythign that is not CPU, sometimes nice but expect the worst as these guys love to take the bad guy role
    K*P... good hearted, but dickheads by times, some i consider friends.. theyre open for basically any fight, good treatment after kills
    Anarchy... they used to be my enemies at one point but kind of irrelevant at the moment as there arent many of them left. Oh, and Merlin propably wins the award for "most decent person" in theyr guild. For some reason unknown to me theres also a lot of hate between Anarchy and P'S

    There are, ofc, many guilds that ive missed here but thats the most relevant in the past year i would guess.
    We could go deeper though and list factions, etc
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  3. NCCML

    NCCML Well-Known Member
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    The answer to your question is this:

    The group that any individual is currently fighting alongside are the good guys, and whoever they are killing are the bad guys.

    And everybody is convinced that the enemy is evil. Regardless of which side you are on.

    At the end of the day, it's all the same brother. Like Erza said, each group is both. Depending on what side of the fence you are watching from.

    Trying to map it and categorize everybody is futility, since all these "good guy" guilds that Erza listed simply run around on alts and pk, antagonize, etc. They just do it less obviously (I would say "secretly" but ultimately there is always somebody that knows who their alts are, you just gotta ask around privately) using chars and guilds that the general public dont know are theirs.

    It's just a bunch of people playing UOR however they see fit given their current mood, and who has upset them that week/day/month etc.
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  4. Erza Scarlet

    Erza Scarlet Well-Known Member
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    Its some sort of sideffect 15 chars per player bring with them.
    There are some individual pvpers that would never even think about PKing, but this isnt true for many others as there is always room for that "hidden pk alt"

    I am no innocent either, just saying ]: )
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  5. Xavant_BR

    Xavant_BR Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah.. that history of Bright side and dark side was just a joke..
    I think erza explained me some basic things to know...
    One thing is true, to put them on a scheme we would need more than two axes.. is very complex the relation specially because most of people are not completely transparent about his chars identities...
    And just to make clear... i am not criticizing or being ironic.. this is just some aspect that adds one Extra element on the game dynamics and make him more social and interesting game.
  6. Dr Satan

    Dr Satan Well-Known Member

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    My biased and opinionated feed back, along with a few solid uncontested truths:

    -I've been part of P'S for I dunno four or five years now. P'S is just a group of either vets who want to build and help the server, new guys who want to learn the game and branch out, or players who joined to learn the game and decided to play casual and enjoy the community we have created.

    At one time we were huge, now we still have strong numbers, especially during events we can still have 20 people on and grouped at a time. Usually one or two of us around at all times and in game and in chat.

    P'S is neutral, nobody is disqualified by associations, people are treated as individuals and their character and personality is the only test, we have a code of conduct taken seriously, and if you wanna see the server grow and help folks you're welcome to be part of the channel and likely the guild. There is no champ section, no idoc section, no pvp branch, people may have alts to do as they wish, but we aren't a recruitment tool for any guilds, people grow and up move on to where they wanna be and end up doing what they want. As long as you're not an asshat on your alts or bring drama you're fine.


    -For me regarding pvp:. I play Ruby Jean in the True Brits faction. She is my main.

    I steady try to get life back in factions, and play by my own code of conduct. I don't have any "pk" in the traditional sense. Most of my pvp is done in CTF, Factions, or fighting known PKs. I may kill blues time to time but only if I'm 100% certain they pk people (or that blue is the alt of a pk who kills randoms and new dudes). I never have killed randoms, I don't enjoy the idea, I hate feeling like I'm picking on someone or wasting their time or spoiling their fun.

    All my pvp is based on what I consider consentual, and I have done some idocs but back then it was when it was ran by organized pk groups and epic fights. When SoL/CPU was there I'd show up time to time for the hell of it. Idocs is consentual pvp to me, it's to pvp what harrower's is to champ guilds imo. However I never even spent time to loot items and I don't even have scavenger enabled. I show up to fight "the bad guys", or I used too, back when there was fights and not 60 pets and scripts turtled in front of the drop.

    I have never been active and a member in an actual idoc group (though in my old age now I may be open to the idea), but I hear KP has aligned with some guilds knocking out and raiding random champs and doing idocs, give me a shout if someone needs a hero.

    Also pretty much all my alts are known, I always talk about my fights at the end and enjoy the sportsmanship usually discovered at the end of a battle.

    Also every hero needs a villain, and I have friendships and acquaintances and conversations with people of all sides. There are very few geniune assholes here, most of your big bad PKs are just decent folks having fun and aren't really meanspirited at all. No need to call any assholes out as they know who they are, and when they kill ya you will too.
  7. Erza Scarlet

    Erza Scarlet Well-Known Member
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    I remember times where there wouldnt be any, or little reds around in general. Especially during EU times.
    I think that occacionally playing the "bad guy" benefits the shard, and its good to have the reminder that this is still UO, and letting people experience it. (thats why most people are here afterall)

    Theres never a reason to be an asshat though, or have harsh feelings towards anyone (except the people that somehow managed to be on the sh** list)
    You kill, you rezz, and you take whats appropriate - idealy you save the horse and maybe thrown an invis... my take on it.

    If you struggle to survive im more than willing to teach some pvp basics, or simple survival tips which will make general survival (escaping, etc.) for you much easier.
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  8. Dr Satan

    Dr Satan Well-Known Member

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    it would be very easy for me to create an extensive list of every good person and a list of positive things done by players here who also enjoy being the bad guy now and then. Nothing wrong with pking or making an occasional zerg or robbing somebody. It's literally part of the game and a intended and fun design.

    The virtual hate from a few opposing groups is also part of the game I think. Some may actually be as triggered by their enemy as they claim, but I am pretty comfortable saying nobody is really as upset as they make out and believes the stories they create and spread. It is part of the game too and not being bothered by it and learning this good community and finding a niche for yourself is also part of the game.

    We all have it really good on this server and lucky who we have to share it with.
  9. Lyta

    Lyta Well-Known Member
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    Wait.... how is owning a ford, Mitsubishi or Toyota more prestigious than a Volvo or Audi?!? BMW is a running joke whose acronym has been dubbed Big Money Waster, how is it financially effective?? That graphic made me sad :(
  10. Xavant_BR

    Xavant_BR Well-Known Member

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    @Lyta yeah the positioning of some brands doesn't make sense to me... i took this chart not considering the context... but one thing is true,,, if i would chose a brand to represent myself i would be a proton owner...
    I work with brands so i love to brand and stereotype peoples, grouping them according his affinities.. Yeah this is not cool, but to talk about social groups sometimes necessary... stereotyping is very useful to talk about societies and is evolutionary tool that we used to simplify our decisions process... "when the shit goes down, who i should trust?"

    BUT(T)
    Those insights you guys shared here are teaching me something.... the diversity and complexity of the relations between renaissance players doesnt give-me any chance to create something similar of the positioning maps i build for my clients.

    I learned that i can't talk shit about any group.. i gave up of building a group political map, now makes more sense to me just analyze each people, individually, and how they contribute to the shard and to the community...
    One thing is true, @Dr Satan , @Erza Scarlet, @NCCML and @Lyta are on my Pantheon of UOR heroes!
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
  11. Evil Dead

    Evil Dead Well-Known Member
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    Before we left UOR it was SOF vs. the whole shard. Towards the end of the glory days Anarchy, TB, KP and PWN all made an alliance to fight us. There was once a time though when all factions were represented by multiple guilds and we had some really great battles with all 4 factions involved. If only we could get those days back..
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  12. NCCML

    NCCML Well-Known Member
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    I am no hero, but I think you are an awesome dude and I am glad that we got to spend some time playing together, hope to do lots more of that my friend! @Xavant_BR

    And yeah, @Evil Dead that sounds awesome. It would be great to see a revival of factions, where we see a bit of everybody. Man, back on OSI, those were the glory days to me. There were always peeps around to battle. Always group fights going. Really awesome.
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  13. Evil Dead

    Evil Dead Well-Known Member
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    I agree @NCCML There was nothing more fun than logging in UOR everyday to beat some ass or get your ass beat in game then log onto the forums to talk some shit or get some shit talked on you. The drama on UOR was real and it was beautiful. No other gaming experience in my life gave me a rush or motivation to compete than what we had going here.

    It's funny I still like to think about what UOR would be like today if the pvpers got some simple fixes that they asked for. Problems and ideas were brought up but nothing was done. Pvp groups slowly faded away and it was harder and harder to find good fights here. You can only pk empty dungeons and chase Pax Romain for so long before you have to move on to fill your PVP cravings.

    If a great war does begin here once again which I really wish in all my best interest would happen you will find me and I hope a bunch of gone but not forgotten UOR pvp'n sons of bitches back on the battle field raising hell here and relighting the fire this place has been missing.
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
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  14. Felix Jaegar

    Felix Jaegar Member

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    My Thoughts.

    I returned before Christmas after a 2 year break. Before I left I was in PS and now I'm back I still hang with alot of PS. PS in my opinion is one of the good guys, they have always been there to help any new player be it taking them farming to help them setup new toons, or just simply explaining mechanics of the game. Since my return I have started to join the pvp community. I have fought in dungeons, I have dueled in Bucs Numerous Times with friends, and I have attended a couple of Idocs. Last night I even saw some PvP between TB and Com with the odd SL or Minax Thrown in. I would like to say i'm good at pvp but im not haha but its all fun. I have fought with the KP on a few occasions and overall opinion is they are good people, they will kill most on sight but will usually hang around to res and only take what they need (note i do say most)

    The only Anarchy I have fought against is Merlin and at times he was ok but he has a tendency to kill ANYONE even if they are a newb on day one of UOR. But he does res on occasions and is quite helpful with duels and tips for pvp.

    No guild can be grouped into good or bad (except PS in my opinion as they are so helpful and continue to help me even though my accounts are over 2000 days old lol) so trying to group these would be impossible. There are also other large guilds out there which could be included in any list.

    P.S.
    Make factions great again!!!
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  15. Zyler

    Zyler Well-Known Member

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    *steals map*
  16. merlin8666

    merlin8666 Well-Known Member

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    @wylwrk is right (to paraphrase from a different post of his). If you want action, you have to be here and find it. Yesterday i had the lucky opportunity to crash a Harrower and the day before, to crash a Rikktor Champ. Definitely a couple hours worth having!

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  17. wylwrk

    wylwrk Well-Known Member

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    REAL LIVE PEOPLE!
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  18. Xavant_BR

    Xavant_BR Well-Known Member

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    Nice fight at rikktor i just got the last movements... thats the game!
  19. JimmyTheHand

    JimmyTheHand Well-Known Member
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    TL;DR

    Jimmy define all states?
    Maybe make sexy community thing?
    ? Rambling?
    Feedback Please!
    UO:R Win.

    - - -​

    I understand this sort of a concept and how it would help some folks, I might make an interactive thingy with some update interface and host it SOLELY FOR MY SELFISH NEEDS AND GUILD KNOWLEDGE!!!

    :p But seriously, I think everyone here is actually missing some stuff as your thought process obviously is based on your experiences and knowledge of others (mine too ofc, I am only part way to omni-potent, but will still attempt to define types :D )

    1. Good / Evil, nope. Pointless. Reasons above + more valid uses below.

    2. Factions / Order Chaos / NPC Aligned? Yeah, this provides an "allegiance" which can be cross referenced with other entries in the graph and obviously adjusts the position of those allied ones closer together.

    3. @Erza Scarlet mentioned the using colouring for how likely they would be to kill you. Awesome, this puts The Mockers waaaaay in the SuperFunHappyClub.
    Maybe you intended to extrapolate, but theres far worse things to do to a person than kill him and take his farming gear.

    More: Some other things that I think should be definitely considered is knowledge of the guilds structure. Which perhaps as I just realize is the part becoming closest to a political map. I was going to say initially "heavily organized, loose group of associates, etc." But we can be FAR more accurate and useful. We don't even need confirmation of specific strucutre as this is all based on and intended to improve perception isn't it.

    After more: In addition to all of this, (and this is where character/guild alignments can be used as further adjustment on the graph), degree of Roleplaying that they do.
    This can greatly affect how someone interacts with another.

    A simple example: Angald the Elf, Watcher of the Woods. The person playing this character is speaking in some strange language, using *emotes* all the time, never addressing anyone by their character name until introduced (Angald doesn't know it yet), he's not what I'd say is "hardcore", it's a used term, but a better one is likely "RP Pure" or something... His guild is 100% going to act different to a self proclaimed King of the Orcs who is raiding towns and killing sheep, as well as react different to PwNzAuceMacDad that is speaking incoherent noises and talking of strange things like "dam, slots, hp" etc.

    I think that makes the point that the RP adjustment and it's wide variants should be a consideration. Simply put, outside of Angald's players reactions... if you know that there's a Pure-RP guild of vampires, or hired killers, or zealots that worship Ophidians as their gods and you're on their turf, and they appear.... You have some sense of what the hell you should be doing.
    This btw, is not meta-gaming (outside game knowledge used in a RP sense), this is something I'd call "world knowledge". We don't have NPC's to click and say "tell me more about <Ophidian Nutjobs>". What we do have is a community who would be developing a sense of a guild and adjusting.

    How do we agree? Interactive graph with... forum based and publicly visible votes via click and drag to where you think they should be? or, a points system that is averaged that updates? Both? Mix? This? That?

    I imagine ranking along the line of.... one per variable and as the "live single user perception updates, sub variables would appear when/where applicable"

    Example of PRIMARY variables along the lines of maybe:
    On Sight of an Unknown Contact they typically:

    0 [Immediate Retreat]
    1 [Fighting Retreat]
    2 [Holds Position For Possible Engagement]
    3 [Maneuvers For Engagement]
    5 [Actively Seeks Engagement]
    6 [Kills on Sight]


    Ok I know I punched out a bunch of stuff, I can't be bothered checking it over really, but I'm sure it makes some sense :)


    I might take a crack at creating a graph with what I consider primary and sub characteristics and arranging them to best relate.


    Finally, I'd be down for creating this as a browser based (webGL) interactive questionnaire with some nice and informative visuals. Pop ups on hover, "more info" "wtf is that word you weirdo Jimmy" etc. Of course the system would have to be hosted on UORForums or UORenaissance websites for clear reasons of security, trust, and accurate user vote tracking. IT'd also give us simple links to guild sites, guild threads, etc. although... do think UORen gets less traffic than it should outside of the day to day categories of use for the users playstyle.... *cuts himself off there* that's a dif ramble!

    It would be very simple for the end user anyway. :)


    Please do tear this apart and offer some thoughts. I'm keen to map this out a bit, however it ends up being done! :)



    EDIT: So I did glance and saw I said 'standard variable at one point, maybe elsewhere too'... I definitely prefer and intended Primary and Sub

    -Jimmy the Hand,
    Nightmaster, The Mockers
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019
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  20. Evil Dead

    Evil Dead Well-Known Member
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