I thought it was era accurate when looting the corpses of mobs you did not kill you would turn criminal? Why is this not active here? If a stealther comes around and loots a boss I just spend a long time to kill my only recourse is to take a murder count? And that's if they don't get the recall off in time?
If my memory serves: before UO:R/trammel the corpses were grey and there was no looting rights. Post trammel mobs died with blue corpses (in both trammel and felucca) and looting them made you grey in felucca (and was not possible in trammel). I'm not sure how I feel about this mechanic on this server. I don't think I've ever been in the situation you mentioned, either, here. Have you, Cynic? It seems like if we had this mechanic it would more often be used to noto unwitting people that didn't realize they were about to go grey.
I could have sworn this was the case even pre-tram, but I really can't remember. I have fallen victim to the stealther taking my loot from time to time, albeit not often. More common during boss monsters or events. We just had about a 20 minute back and forth with Dalavar doing just this over and over to a new player trying to farm in Shame. I'm not sure if he just wanted to bully this player out of Shame or if he legit does this regularly for gold. He would stealth in there and wait for both bloods to be dead, loot, recall, rinse & repeat. I don't believe that if you do 0 dmg to a monster that you should have any "rights" in looting it. That's not to say you can't be roguish and loot, but it should turn you criminal. Currently your only recourse is to take counts. I shouldn't have to take counts if the other player is doing something roguish. Roguish behavior should turn you criminal, open to attack, and restricted from recalling like a turd.
Interesting. inre: to how it worked pre:trammel: I'm pretty sure all mob corpses were grey. I remember a room full of people all hitting the lich lord in deceit and whoever got the gold the fastest got the gold (and last hit for fame/karma if I recall). Some mobs didn't even have corpses and just dropped gold on the ground (this part was corrected a couple months into trammel and elementals got new puddle like corpses). I'm pretty sure looting rights was mostly designed for trammel because it would be so easy to stand by someone and loot their kills in a no-pvp facet. I imagine most people would be in favor of no looting rights and letting player's enact their own justice in this situation. But if this is a genuine issue it helps Telamon to read about it.
I wouldn't be opposed to some variant of looting rights based on enough damage being dealt during the killing of the mob. Not having the ability to take action on a theft without risking a murder count, is annoying. Perhaps the looter could flag only to the person(s) responsible for killing the mob?
Are you kidding me? I was there farming. BananaKush (a "new player" who's already in Factions?) runs up and starts dragging Blood Elementals onto me. Once there were 5 of them, I left, healed my pets, came back and continued farming - and yes, took the gold from the Bloods I finished off. He feigns attacking me, thinks better of it, and then gates in three friends, who proceed to attack me, block my recall spots, and otherwise take over the spawn. In almost 5 months here, I've never actually had anyone try to noto-PK me, but I guess I was due. Take your petty passive-aggressiveness to Trash Talk where it's easier to ignore, please. That is correct regarding pre-Trammel. I'm not sure what "genuine issue" means; in this case it's simply four people who got mad they couldn't PK me when they wasted 20 minutes trying to bully me out of a farming spot.
I was thinking that it didn't sound like Dalavar to me. We're not best friends or anything, but I believe he's being truthful about his side of the story.
Mes, I was there. Although you don't know me very well either, I don't think I have the reputation to come here and lie either. I've never remotely been a dick to anyone in this game and I surely don't lie or steal. I did recall there to help him (kush). I did block recall spots to and from there because Dalavar continued to stealth in and try to loot mobs that were being killed by Kush. And yes, he is a newb, he's in factions but it's for buying regs. If it were a faction kill then yeah who cares but this was not the case. So, back to my original post, criminal when looting kills that aren't yours...
I was in the dungeon as well on my stealther and watched the situations that occured several times. In regards to looting rights, I definitely think that this should be implemented. Your essentially stealing somebody elses gold that they worked for. And they should have the proper opportunity to F you up for doing so.
Cynic I think you're a pretty standup guy too. Did you see it from the start or did you respond to a cry for help? Because it sounds more to me like this guy tried to mess with Dalavar and then called you guys in to back him up when it wasn't working. Also the guy's name is bananakush. He might as well have named himself knuckledragging-shitstain.
Regardless of the happenings this is an "era discussion" topic. Please stay on topic with reasons why/why not this change should/shouldn't be implimented.
It was originally him stating that he was getting bullied out of the spawn so we came to help. When I got there I saw Dalavar doing what I stated that he was doing. I have absolutely no gain in accusing him of this and making it all up. I didn't fall victim to it, a new player to the server did and I was helping him. As far as the name goes, I never played any other free shard so I can't speak for previous reputations. However, I do have a dexxer named Pestilence which apparently has made some people uncomfortable from a previous shard (even though we are not the same person), and also a mage named Syphilis (lol std). So I dunno lol.
Looting rights were implemented because of Trammel. As this shard aims to replicate Renaissance-era UO, minus the influence of Trammel, it seems like a pretty poor fit to have Trammel looting rights added. In Felucca, you always have the option to try to kill the looter (or person trying to continue farming in peace, as the case may be). You and your 3 friends attempted to pursue this option, but failed. Despite the feigned objection to "only recourse is to take a count", it seemed to be the path you and your guildmates wished to go down this afternoon. ...and being able to call for backup for 3 other people is a nice perk too! You also have absolutely nothing to gain by attempting to smear me within the context of a supposed "era discussion", either. BananaKush said one word to me: "Incoming". Not "hey, maybe you didn't see me, but I was here first". Not "I'm new and trying to earn some gold, mind if I take over this spawn?" Not "hey sorry about leading 5 blood elementals directly onto you, I failed a couple provocations and panicked." Just "Incoming", and then he throws up a gate for his guildmates (who I'm sure are just in factions for the regs!) who immediately arrive.
I don't think they made the change because of Trammel. I can't see how being able to conduct an act which is typically looked at as roguish without any consequences Trammel in any way. You can't loot a treasure chest without going criminal if you didn't dig it up. This is the exact same principle. I believe this in it of itself proves that the only recourse is taking a count. I don't see your point here. I was willing to take a count to get you out of there, but you recalled away every chance you had, understandable, I would have killed you if you didn't. You can't just go somewhere and kill someone that's "farming in peace" without repercussions, and that's taking counts. However, in this case you can loot to your hearts desire and get nothing but a bad reputation out of it. Such are the perks of being in a guild? You're right, and I wasn't trying to smear you at all. I was explaining the FACTS as I saw them unfold. If that gives you a bad rep then perhaps you should choose a different play style that which does not tarnish your reputation. I can care less what he told you before we recalled in. I saw what I saw, call it revenge on your part, I don't know. But you stuck around to loot corpses that you didn't kill and thus the topic of my thread. If you loot a corpse that you didn't kill there should be repercussions.
Honestly, if this is an accepted play style then maybe, for arguments sake, I'll throw an alt into cA and sit at elder gazers looting peoples kills. Think a tamer is going to take tons of counts on me because I loot his kills? No. But this is his/her only option if they want to farm there, otherwise beat feet. Without the repercussion of going criminal, this is a huge griefing tactic. It's legal thievery.
Looting rights may have been implemented to suit Trammel but I think there's still merit for it if it can be perfected. With the damage tracking we have going on here it's in the realm of possibility to have it properly flag any rogue looters to the actual slayers of the mob. It's not blocking them from looting it, which is what looting rights really did in Trammel if I'm not mistaken. As such, allowing a criminal the opportunity to say 'Screw it, I'm gonna risk bagging that platinum and see if they can kill me'. Talk about more fun in the field......
I personally wouldn't be for such a change, though I do understand the reasoning above as to why. To me, this change would be just a bit too much of the Trammel feel. As for the question of if this was ever a pre-Trammel system, no, it was not: http://www.uoguide.com/Publish_5#Monste ... me.2FKarma This was part of the official release patch for Renaissance -- and was, as previously suggested, directly tied into the non-consentual changes that came along with the Trammel landmass.
Ok, so it was added after Trammel. I just don't understand how this negatively impacts the server. It's roguish behavior to which should flag you as criminal. Nothing is preventing you from looting the corpse, go right ahead, but be prepared to put up a fight if you are going to. This alone screams anti-Trammel. I don't understand why a treasure chest will flag you as a criminal if you loot it but a corpse you have no right to loot is ok. They are the same thing but looting rules differ, doesn't make sense. Imagine trying to go out there and farm a bit and you encounter a blue who is an expert at looting. What are you going to do? Take a count? How many counts? Will you go red so that you can farm? Makes absolutely no sense, It's a giant opening to be griefed.
I always looked at Trammel as that part of the game that protected players that wanted nothing to do with PvP/Thievery/House Looting/Etc. Applying that logic to this case, I don't see the same protection. I'm not arguing that the corpse should be lootable only by the killer. I'm arguing that if you have the balls to loot my corpse then you'd better be willing to fight me for it and I shouldn't be penalized for that. I can't wrap my head around it. What's stopping people from just running around and following you until you kill something and loot your kill? Seems like a pretty easy way to play the game, you need 0 skills for this. I can loot your kills all day and just give you counts until you give up. There is no negative impact on me for being a thief. Why PK? You can make more gold just looting peoples kills and make THEM go red.. lol
