PvP Website Ranking Discussion

i think the main thing to do is just to ignore killed = killer records and to create a 5 minute period after killing someone where the killed isn't worthy of awarding points.

apart from that and for grading a kill, i think they all count for one point if not in (monster, self, controlled)

If more than one person or monster is in on the kill that should drop points. Dropping someone who is almost dead from a dragon should not net 1 full point.

then do i get > 1 point for soloing a tamer with her two dragons?

imo we shouldn't get into the business of assigning value to kills because there are too many variables that are tied too tightly to circumstance for the data to be able to be representative of how much skill a kill took.

It would be based on damage, not really killing blow. So if a dragon has done 80% damage to someone when you pop off an e-bolt you only get like .2 points because you didn't do 1 point worthy of dmg.

Roxxer does 90% dmg and gets .9 points.
Mercedes mostly paralyze and pops off the killing blow for .1 points.

Agreed with Liberation below...

"...imo we shouldn't get into the business of assigning value to kills because there are too many variables that are tied too tightly to circumstance for the data to be able to be representative of how much skill a kill took."

I feel all kills should net one point excluding related IPs. It is too difficult and there is not enough data available to accurately rate someone as being worth more or less points.The five minute buffer between killing someone and being able to receive an additional count I feel is a great addition.

the problem with grading kills is that you can't account for the difficulty caused by circumstance with efficient database operations.

if we're grading kills, then i should get more points for killing a TT when i'm 1v4 than i get for killing an afk tamer at jhel farms.

we can't be in this business because it's too technically complicated.

all kills count for one.

I agree it is tough to grade kills, precisely becausr of this:

...and how much is one worth over the other?

+1.00 to the notion of all-kills-are-equal.

I also think "Controlled" counts should not be ruled out. If my tamer is attacked, and I lay waste to my attacker because Fluffy and Puffy rip him a new one, I don't see why that shouldn't count.

Killing the tamer is 1 point, killing the dragons goes onto the pvm board. Unless 4 people hit the tamer, then the points split amongst the damage dealers. I agree that you can't rate certain people higher, unless it is based on their points. So if you kill someone with 150pts you get more points than someone with 5 points. This would make killing a miner = 1 point, while killing another pker would net you a ton more points.

good point.

Controlled mob credit should coalesce to the mob's controller.

Well you guys have pretty much described the way it already works.

With the exception of a buffer/timer on repeat kills. I'm personally not convinced one way or the other except that I don't believe kills on your own IP should count as kills.

As far as controls; I'm kind of leaning towards them not counting as a kill on the leaderboard (they do currently.) There are two main scenarios that lead to controls getting kills:

One is tamed dragons which I've felt for some time are unbalanced because of the way firebreath works (and control slots.) The other is blade spirits/ev's which most commonly get kills on afk people. I don't really think these are kills that should be recognizable as an achievement on a list, but it's not something that I feel strongly about.


If you were to grade kills, which I think would be interesting, you could qualify targets based on something like:

If (Magery+Med+Eval+Resist+Wrestle+Tactics+Anat+Swords+Macing+Fencing+Archery+Healing) >= 500
Then target is qualified as a worthy opponent. I'm not suggesting that players that don't fit the above wouldn't count as kills in general, or murders, or whatever, but I think it would be cool to see them categorized. You could potentially see stats like kills on players in houses, kills on characters with less than X amount of skill points, kills on characters with >X amount of crafting skills, kills on characters with >X amount of pve skills (as in barding or taming or treasure hunting.) I guess I'm suggesting a separate list that could break down your overall kills.



The biggest thing though is probably tossing out same IP kills which you already intended to do. And then a timer on killing the same player- I don't think this has to be particularly long. 3-5 minutes is probably fine. Longer than that and there will be situations where you don't get credit for kills you had to work for because sometimes people get up and re-equipped and are back in the fight.

This wouldn't be a bad time to add faction stat loss since it will nullify both practical and leaderboard reasons for res killing factioners. Currently there are thieves out there that will res all day at the healer and just run right back at your base - there's no reason for them not to.

I wonder if the IP limit could be variable based on kill type.

For example, 5 minutes for Factions, but 24 hours for Murder.

i doubt there's a technical reason that would prevent this.

but why?

I dunno, it just seems like if you kill a miner somewhere, and they res up, restock, and get back at it 20 minutes later, and then you kill them again shortly thereafter, it's a little too close to res-killing for my liking. Not saying they should get a free pass, no one should, but to count it as an additional "kill" seems suspect. It would also prevent a bit of count-wrangling, I think, so you can't just have a buddy on a different IP macroing at an Ankh for you to macro counts on.

Not that I really have any stake in this, but agreed with Dalavar on the timer. If someone wanted, they could easily set up a macro to farm counts with someone on a different IP with the current system.

Don't forget that this is a double-edged sword; you're saying that you'd enjoy a system where I can res kill you with impunity and you can only count me once per 24 hours.

Does it have to be linked like that? I don't actually know where the validation of the kill circumstances occur. It seems from Chris' original post that the "grading" of the kill can occur well afterwards. So it would seem to me that it could be recorded by the game as a "murder", but then graded as a 0.0 and removed from the website for scorekeeping purposes.

Certainly if forced to choose, the mechanics of the game should always come before the website, IMO. But I'm not sure one has to choose here.

I don't think this will have anything to do with how murder accounts are given. Whether or not a count is given is not related to points on the murderer portion of the leaderboard currently, and I'm pretty sure it will remain this way. As it stands if you have 5 short terms and kill someone it calls it a murder.

that's true i guess; it is two different systems.

i shouldn't post before consuming coffee ;[

i still think 24 hours is absurdly long. you will restock within 30 minutes easily and i won't get credit for killing you if you come back and attack me, fully stocked?