Tamer Stat Loss

Greetings all,

I have an issue with the new pet stat loss.

Players from my guild, and I am confident everywhere, are consistently griefed. This is a known fact and a part of Ultima since it's beta launch. Here is the issue with this new patch;

Griefers are now incentivized to kill my pets, more than they were previously. Before it was an inconvenience to be an asshole and wait the 5-10 minutes to kill my pets. I would simply resurrect, recover my pets, spend 20 minutes figuring out my new bags, what was lost etc.

Now I get to fight my pets overnight or for days to reverse a single pet loss. I understand the intent of the stat loss. But make it less permanent, or give everyone who attacks my pets a permanent status until I can off them in the future, giving this new system some balance. This shit really pisses me off, as I am only able to play 1-2 hours a week at the most. Five minutes and one asshole gets to ruin my play time for the week. So far two guys have eliminated my desire to play over the course of the past couple of days.

Let's find some common ground on this issue. Here is the conversation starter.

2.5% is too much for magery/resist. Good on the other stats. Dyne has spoken.

Lvl 7 Maps gates being there sparkling for all the durattion of the event for pks to camp outside.
Stat loss on pets wich dont even count as kills for Blues who are now griefers more than ever.

I think this are very bad ideas.

You are 100% correct that people are now incentivized to kill pets. I would argue that this is a needed part of the risk part of being a tamer.

Apart from that, I would like to make the case that you are greatly exaggerating the efficacy of pet stat loss and greatly exaggerating the time needed to re-train pets. A single pet stat loss is only 2.5% so you would need to have your fully trained pets die like 7+ times before its even that big of a deal. Then in terms of re-training, you said it yourself "fight my pets overlight". Certainly you are sleeping while you do this so I fail to see how AFK training affects your limited playtime. Train pets while you sleep, (securely using a shadow iron elemental so you don't have to worry/stress about getting disconnected and letting your pets die), and use your limited playtime to play.

I would really try to seperate yourself from these feelings that pet killers are asshole griefers. These pets you bring out to farm with also double as agents of death and PK's should do everything they can to reduce the danger these agents pose by slightly reducing the stats of every pet they come across.
I have killed a handful of PK's this last week using my pets so I don't see why they shouldn't try to make it harder for me by killing my pets if they get the chance. It's up to me to protect my pets, I am their MASTER!

Magery on a mare takes more than "overnight" to macro. And thats with letting it dump/cast for 1-2 minutes and then meditate for 1-2 minutes. When farming or even pvping, if you rez a pet during battle, as most of us do, if the pet dies again before getting that first heal off(and alot of times the pet auto attacks after the rez) you now have 2.5% twice as there is no time limit on the stat loss...

Most pks don't res while in stat loss, they macro their counts off. Is there a way to "macro" my pets stat loss off by not ressing it?

What's the big deal? just macro it off. You macro every night anyways.
I mean, it's not like they lose hitpoints, stats or armor, the only things that actually matter.

Besides, a 7x pet is only for PVP, and you everyone knows that it makes little room for balance when people with 4 7x mares are consistently getting instakills.

Dragons NEED to be risky to use. The previous state was all reward, no risk. In all honesty, 2.5% is nothing, and i think it would be more fair at 5, or 10%.
If you don't like the statloss, then don't use them in pvp.

There is no pet stat loss. Judging by the trade forums, that is single factor in pricing.

Anyway, how about we keep pets bonded and allow pet resurrection but with a twist. Upon resurrection, the pet reverts to the a random skill set that is determined by a dice roll. The same dice roll that determines a pet's skills when spawned.

Why don't we do this, throw everyone into a stat loss when they are killed by a griefer so that they just quit the server. Seems reasonable to support the player base.

Elhorno I disagree, greatly.

My dragons died two times, and are now in the low 90's across the board. A 7x pet is not for PVP. I could care less about PVP. I just want to enjoy the game and enjoy my time when I spend it. As far as risk is concerned if that is the posture you wish to take then why don't we involve risk. Let's eliminate guard zone and see how long new players stick around. Why don't we also make all crafters red, so when they go for a bod.. they are at risk of death by guards.

New players don't care if their dragons are 7x, and what's preventing you from enjoying your time?
The fact is, you still have the same dragon you tamed, and god forbid you put any work into managing the biggest powerhouse in the game.

This is why UO evolved into Tram/Fel, some of us just dont want to deal with griefers. This is stupid, and some of us dont have large groups of friend to be rdy for all this fel bullshit. So i need a team to defend my self from pks all the time??? F*** This!

Can I bond to my slayer too?

I routinely solo in-game and I am not having your difficulty. Potions, scrolls, and hiding make a world of difference.

Honestly I would hate to see anyone quit over this. You guys are a huge asset to this shard an I'm sorry to hear that this is getting to you. If I were to approach this with compromise in mind, maybe increase the stat loss to 25% and make it last 1 hour?

I'm sure all my tamer friends will curse me for saying this, but I have never used a trained dragon in all my UO days...geesh its like 20 years now.

Every dragon I have ever had was a random throwaway that I could have cared less about its stats/skills.

Whereas I perfectly understand the obvious difference between trained/untrained and good/bad stats, I truly cannot fathom the outrage over losing the skills/time invested.

I had 100's of millions on OSI, 10's of millions on Angel Island, 100's of millions on UOSA, and am certainly not pixel poor here on UOR. I did it all without a single trained dragon.

Trained and maxed dragons are really nice, but they are not worthy of this rage when lost.

They're simply not that big of a deal...

I think the problem comes with the players that are min/maxers and like to be "complete". It literally takes 8-12 hours of macroing (or more) to get from 95-100 magery on a mare. When 1 death(usually from pve not pvp btw) causes that magery to drop to 97.5, you res it, and it instantly dies again...it's very frustrating. I myself wouldn't quit over this, I would find other ways to adapt such as using throwaway dragons on amibs/level 7 maps(where they die the most from the poison traps) but I can certainly understand why the people that don't get as much playtime are frustrated over it. And I will stand by my decision that I think 2.5% is too much for magery and resist. I would go so far as to say make magery and resist 1% and the other stats 5% as the other stats macro while fighting/using them. The magery/resist isn't something you can get just by "using" them, it has to be gotten in a cheap fashion by capturing a shadow elemental and training them in ways that were not intended.

On the plus side, people can start staying on their mares instead of using them as added combat and since dragons have the 475 int(mana) they are MUCH MUCH easier to train than the mares are.

2.5% on dragons isnt that bad imo, it sucks, but maybe needed to balance tamers a bit. But 2.5% on mares magery/resist is just ruthless and unneeded.

I do believe there should be a way to force murderer/reds with a certain amount of counts, to take the stat loss rather than macroing counts off. Since there is no option currently to macro stat loss off on pets. A red should have to take the stat loss (and then have the counts reset) rather than being able to stand afk as a ghost for days without playing. All that does is force them to rotate 3 characters while macroing a ghost on a daily basis. Doesn't really add any "risk" either.

People say its as easy as "macroing your pets afk" to get the stats back, well its the exact same for a player. Sure it costs a few k in reagents, but if you are out getting murder counts, you should be able to afford a few reagents and attend a freesist party. We want felucca and RISK well lets give it some risk. Risk for those that choose to play risky.

It's not like you can't kill the same bosses with pets that have 90 magery instead of 100.
This little difference adds a useful balance element to a skill that was overpowered, and if you can't see that taming was overpowered, then there's really no point in having a discussion.

Forcing statloss on pks is absolutely different. You're comparing pets to players, and that's where your thought is inherently flawed.
Although, I would also be happy with a 1 hour 25% stat loss, but I don't see how that would make tamers any happier.

It doesn't matter.. There needs to be statloss, even on OSI and other crappy custom trammel servers they have pet stat loss. Tamers are already the most OP templete whether or not their pets are 7x or under 80. Stat loss for pets need to stay.

Complaining while playing the strongest and most imbalanced template on this shard simply sucks. Nobody is forcing you to use your GMd dragons. Nobody is forcing you to use your dragons in hot spots frequented by PKs. Nobody is forcing you to play solo in a MMORPG. It's all you, who wants to earn 100k+ per hour and get the best loot.
You want your maximum gold and plat income and to kill all bosses, you have to live with at least some risk. And many people still consider that risk near to non-existent. Try playing a dexxer with a decent slayer on this shard, and you will know the meaning of true risk and how to adapt to the constant PK threat.

And if your pets die in PvM, then try to improve your gameplay or switch to easier monsters.

OP is wrong.

When stat loss was disabled, the slaying of bonded pets was purely to grief. There was no other reason to kill pets.

Now, slaying pets has a purpose and is not purely to grief. It actually does something.


Also, I'd like to point out that stat loss was disabled as a temporary safety net because tamers needed extra hugs during the DDOS days. PKs were not given extra hugs.

You picked to be a tamer. I picked to be a PK. Just like no one is forcing me to PK, no one is forcing you to own bonded pets or play a tamer.

UO is about choice. Don't complain about your choices.

I agree. Some of us don't have groups. But you certainly don't need a group to be successful here. I'm a perfect example of someone who is thriving while playing solo and with more risk then you've experienced in your uo career probably.