Town criers

Discussion in 'Bug Reports' started by ShadowJack, Oct 14, 2016.

  1. ShadowJack

    ShadowJack Well-Known Member

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    They have los extending behind them. It's easy to test, turn them with the "news" command and then try stealing 5-10 paces directly behind them. They should only have line of sight in the direction they are facing.
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  2. BlackEye

    BlackEye Well-Known Member
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    Any NPC has LoS in a radius around them. The facing direction never had any influence on UO:R.
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  3. ShadowJack

    ShadowJack Well-Known Member

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    Ahh, that's def a bug, I still turn the town crier out of habit from prodo days.


    I need to take time and document some of the quirks (ie bugs) with stealing, I think there are quite a few from fails on stacks to some perma issues.


    I also have a feeling if we ran 10000+ steal tests that we'd see a very very high fail rate or rates that don't correctly reflect the 10 stone gm limit. (for example on stacks, I'd guess the <5 stones would be far more prevalent than stealing 8-10 stones when the skill at gm should really favor higher weights and successes)

    getting gw over stack fails is obnoxious

    I do have a feeling no one who is in a position to do anything cares though, so I could post all of the evidence between prodo and here and it'd go unheeded.
  4. One

    One Well-Known Member
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    I would be delighted if:
    1) Stealing continued to become more difficult as weight increased but even huge items had some chance of success. For example, if someone's carrying a stack of 1000 black pearl you should have a small chance of stealing the whole thing. Same for, for example, a halberd...

    2) Thieves were allowed to take counts without being kicked out of the thieves guild.

    3) Snooping flagged the snooper to the target (No guard whack).

    4) Snooping had a chance of broadly flagging the snooper (To everyone).

    Result:
    Less griefing by low-level thieves.
    Dramatic increase in potential rewards.

    I'm no professional thief like Jack or Blackeye but I do steal and these seem like reasonable changes that would ultimately benefit both thieves and the general populace.
  5. BlackEye

    BlackEye Well-Known Member
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    Start with decreasing 10+ stone items... e.g nearly all monster statuettes are too heavy. Imagine a statue drop I see on the field and I cant do anything...

    The facing direction is a feature here. On purpose I think. Telamon said, that on OSI NPCs could see through walls and had a 20tile range. So, it's to balance things.

    I wish only guards could call for guard whacks, while other NPCs ignore thieves altogether.
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  6. ShadowJack

    ShadowJack Well-Known Member

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    If they saw through walls there (which I don't really remember) the successes balanced it out to be negligent.

    I know for a fact you never failed on stacks or 1 stone items and that usually only 10 stone items would cause problems

    We have the always go grey thing here too, that hurts in the fact that if you want to have supplies you risk losing them to easy auto kills instead of the real system where you could have a success and bank the item or get supplies out if they attacked you for being perma.

    The class def needs a little love, I maybe don't want to see it get to the point where it was so op you had leg humping thieves everywhere and gate hopping the town gates, but I'd like to see the auto kill stuff and fails toned down, success, esp on stacks and weights tuned up, and then some perks like deco items and clothing (only useable/obtainable/wearable by gm stealing chars), stat boards like the pks have, and what not.



    Oh there's also a bug with the armoir I think, I wasn't able to snoop a guy earlier who was carrying his regs in one, it would open but there'd be no container gump open up for me except for briefly.



    I think a lot of folks don't realize the time waits between steals combined with fails/auto kills/wait time to rez, really takes a lot of fun out of it. I'd rather play against people than an auto kill mechanic. People here can simply kill folks really easily and take everything, stealing stuff an item at a time shouldn't be so looked down on, it makes no sense really.
  7. ShadowJack

    ShadowJack Well-Known Member

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    mini test stealing a 10 stone dye tub (what used to be used to gm stealing from packhorses)

    10 tries =

    Try:
    1- fail
    2- fail
    3- fail
    4-fail
    5-fail
    6-success
    7-fail
    8-success
    9-fail
    10-fail


    2 out of 10, that's terrible numbers, now imagine trying to get into a secondary or deeper pack against a moving target (who most likely is trying to kill you (or 2+ people trying to kill you) and having a fail rate like that. Combine it with failing disarm a lot, and it makes it even worse.

    I'd think a grandmaster would only fail 2-3 times out of ten tries on a 10 stone item, not at all on any item 8 or less
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  8. BlackEye

    BlackEye Well-Known Member
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    10 stone items = 50% fails in average

    Tbh, I think we would need two things to start a good discussion:

    1) All the straight facts, how the UO:R mechanics are. No guesses, assumptions and rumors. I can help here well.

    2) How OSI Renaissance really was. That's the tough part, because everybody seems to have different memories that are also mixed up with different eras.
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  9. One

    One Well-Known Member
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    I mean... Even the best thieves will be spotted if they steal hundreds of times. I'm against any 0% or 100% chance of success.
  10. BlackEye

    BlackEye Well-Known Member
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    There are different levels of success.

    1. Getting the item into your bag (what SJ means).

    2. Not being auto-whacked.

    3. Not flagging.

    4. Not being successible to guard calls.

    I think, the real game starts, where you play against players and not against the mechanics. Thus it would be a much nicer game experience when players had to hunt and kill thieves instead of relying on guards or simple macros. Or, in case they aren't able to hunt thieves down, they could simply start using their common sense and start being cautious.

    But Staff here decided that this is too demanding for players. Initially they wanted that Banks should be relatively safe. I can accept that. But they didn't stop there. Every spot within any GZ is quite safe, because anybody can simply call guards. And there are NPCs everywhere that auto-whack. And then there is a huge amount of bugs that can be abused, for example the not-so-locked accessible locked containers.

    Another example, you guys should try to snoop a cupboard. I did it the first time yesterday. Have fun with it. ;)
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  11. One

    One Well-Known Member
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    1) No weight limit, increased success weight at all weights, particularly high weights. (Makes being a thief much more rewarding).

    2) NPCs don't call guards unless it is them you're stealing from, or they ARE guards. (As Blackeye said - Players versus players)

    3) Go gray for snooping (no guardwhack). (As Jack said - Reduction of leg-humping shit thieves)

    4) No "perfect steals" where one doesn't even flag gray. IF this exists it's never happened to me. (Shouldn't be able to just take shit and laugh in people's faces. Get the fuck out of there once you have what you want.)

    5) Perma-gray extended to an hour regardless of deaths. (Every crime must have it's consequence)

    6) Honestly I'm ok with the chance of "Guards may now be called on you!" as long as non-guard NPCs won't do it. Prefer they only have LoS in front of them for logic's sake but I can live with it. (Mind their own beeswax!)

    6) Put a lot of guards outside Brit and Ocllo banks. (So new players see a lot of people standing around there.)

    Otherwise FAIR GAME.
  12. ShadowJack

    ShadowJack Well-Known Member

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    I like One's enthusiasm but that's a little off the charts, I'd like it to be more akin to what prodo was.


    1) No weight limit, increased success weight at all weights, particularly high weights. (Makes being a thief much more rewarding)

    we can barely steal 10, I'm fine with the weight limits, this gives players the options to use alternate weps for security.

    2) NPCs don't call guards unless it is them you're stealing from, or they ARE guards. (As Blackeye said - Players versus players)

    This is fine

    3) Go gray for snooping (no guardwhack). (As Jack said - Reduction of leg-humping shit thieves)

    no, no no, no no no, x 100 That's an obvious nerf, and unless you want to wait 2 mins to bank or rez from snooping alone, this is a bad idea

    4) No "perfect steals" where one doesn't even flag gray. IF this exists it's never happened to me. (Shouldn't be able to just take shit and laugh in people's faces. Get the fuck out of there once you have what you want.)

    Should have a chance to steal and remain blue, no fails on 1 stone items or stacks, this is closer to era and makes the class more playable. I'd guess a ratio of like 1/4 chance to steal and stay blue, 3.5/4s to steal and go grey, /.5 chance at a complete fail and a gw initiated by player (or town guard)

    5) Perma-gray extended to an hour regardless of deaths. (Every crime must have it's consequence)

    You've lost your mind here, no x 10000000

    6) Honestly I'm ok with the chance of "Guards may now be called on you!" as long as non-guard NPCs won't do it. Prefer they only have LoS in front of them for logic's sake but I can live with it. (Mind their own beeswax!)

    I think the los is a good system, just needs to be forward looking only and the numbers of npcs/guards reduced around banks and fails reduced, definitely the seeing through walls is trash.

    6) Put a lot of guards outside Brit and Ocllo banks. (So new players see a lot of people standing around there.)

    No, putting a lot of guards at the busiest areas is a huge nerf. The idea is to get players to play safe or call guards themselves.



    Your heart is in the right place, but these ideas are basically a list of nerfs.



    Oh and finally, monster statues and plants and crap like that were less than 10 stones on prodo, here everything worth rare value is purposefully made heavier than 10 stones or newbied/blessed. Major nerf/bummer.
  13. One

    One Well-Known Member
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    I see where you're coming from and acknowledge that you guys are vets to the class and I've only been at it for a few months.

    1) I should have emphasized I want a much higher chance of success at all weight levels for GM thieves. In my mind this balances out all the rest.

    2) (Already in agreement)

    3) I should also have qualified this. By going gray I mean perma-gray style where only victims and people with forensics can see that you're gray. I don't want any impact on resurrecting, getting healed, etc. (Good point).

    4) We disagree strongly about this. Personally I think having stealing where one can stay blue would lead to immense frustration. And yeah I do steal a lot too so certainly I'd love to take shit and stay blue but when I'm on my other characters I don't want thieves walking around with impunity. To me there should always be a consequence.

    5) Again by perma-gray I mean only to people with forensics and victims. The key is to steal only valuable items. It just seems to me that death isn't really enough of a consequence, and a couple of these points make it much harder to die (#1 and #6).

    6) I think making only guards respond to 3rd person theft, and only see directly in front of them, would make it much easier to steal.
    7) What I'm saying here is - At this point the minter, the banker, maybe the reward vendor, the town crier can all call guards. The extra guards are Brit/Ocllo banks would just be to make up for the other NPCs that don't call guards anymore. Furthermore if they only see in front of them it will still be much, MUCH easier to steal even at Ocllo and Brit bank probably.

    I actually only added 7 because Blackeye pointed out that he's ok with Chris making banks "safe places." (Sounds a bit too much like safe spaces doesn't it?)

    And "For a lark":

    8) Counts shouldn't remove players from the thieves guild.

    Anyway I'm enjoying this discussion I hope we get a boost of some kind!

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