Turning Criminal and Recalls/Gates

Discussion in 'Era Discussion' started by SirLanceAlittle, Jul 18, 2013.

  1. SirLanceAlittle

    SirLanceAlittle Member
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    I made a startling discovery today, quite by accident.
    I found that when a character becomes a criminal and goes Grey or Red, that character cannot cast Recall or Gate for a short period of time.
    Why was this done, and when?
    I do not remember this ever being the case when I played on Great Lakes and Asuka back in the late '90's, although I could be mistaken.
    To me, this limitation makes no sense because the character in-question is still able to go thru a gate opened by someone else.

    I have said this before. Although I do not like being the victim of a pickpocket or a pk'er, it is these elements of danger that make this game so much fun.
    Monsters provide some excitement, but a player-character thief and/or murderer provides so much more excitement.
    So why are criminals being restricted like this?

    I think the balance of safety vs. danger is at best, fair here on UO Ren, howeveer, I also think that the scales are gradually tipping towards safety, which is a mistake in my opinion. There are few, if any, pk guilds here because of that.
    I don't want to give pk'ers card-blanche here, but UO was never supposed to be safe, that is until OSI created Trammel.


    Okay, I have spoken my piece and am very interrested to see how others view this topic.
    Regardless of what is said, this is still the best UO server I have played on and I thank Chris and the dev. team for all their hard work making it so.
  2. Blaise

    Blaise Well-Known Member
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    Much like the inability to carry pre-cast spells through gates, I approve of those who engage in combat, being restricted from bouncing in the middle of a fight, without a cooldown. If you engage the assailant, you should not just be able to cut out as soon as you realize you're about to get dirted, either.
    It smacks a bit of Trammel, but it encourages, through force, good fights. Fights that must be faught, or flown away from the hard way. You want to fight, then stick around and get dirty.
    If you don't want to fight, just recall out.

    Taking other people's gates is a grey area in all that and I think it's reasonable, even though slightly exploitative. You could easily have a macro on an alt that opens up gates for you at specific locations based on Guild Chat messages.

    I don't think other criminals should be able to just flag and run either. If someone's healing a murderer and they flag, they are criminal. Shit, I've done it and I know the risk of no easy way out.
    If you're gonna do some crimes, be ready to do some work to get away clean, or learn to hide real well.

    I like the function, even though I've accidentally screwed myself with it a few times. Flagging from things that should not affect guildmates, for starters. Other times I accidentally heal dragons while I'm taming them.
    Perhaps a happy medium can be found wherein it only applies to violent crimes (attacking other players)?

    Otherwise, meh, I'm fine with it how it is.
  3. Pirul

    Pirul Well-Known Member
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    I agree with Blaise:

    If you want to pick a fight, be prepared to end it. If you don't want to fight, you can still run.
  4. corruption

    corruption Well-Known Member
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    I'll add in my agreement with what Blaise said, with a minor addition:

    I find your general statement, and sentiment, confusing. You say that the risk vs reward nature of UO is what makes it great, but then you seem to imply that you not being able to, say, steal something from someone and instantly recall away, is a detriment to that model of risk vs reward. That notion is backwards; its not your mark who should be dealing with risk vs reward balance -- its you. You stole something from someone, therefore, as part of the risk vs reward, you can't instantly escape from the act. Its a fair trade off in that balance.

    It should stay as it is.
  5. Paradigm

    Paradigm Active Member

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    I specifically remember my old PK guild having a blue scout that gated everyone around. I assume this was because we had criminal action flags from attacking or looting.
  6. SirLanceAlittle

    SirLanceAlittle Member
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    These replies of 'If you do the crime, be prepared to do the time,' is fine for those with high-level characters that are used to heavy combat.
    But friends, many characters are not uber-strong and there is nothing wrong with opening-up what one thinks is going to be a can of whop-ass, only to find it's his/her own ass that is being whopped.
    You saying that I should stay and die if/when I discover that I am in over my head is ludicrous.

    Making it so a solo player, who finds he/she is unprepared, is unable to escape a region is wrong in my opinion.
    You might as well make it so that once engaged in battle of any kind, one is forced to reamin through it's conclusion.

    And for the record, there were usually multiple reasons for the Blue standing in the background:
    First, it was a guild member that would go and loot fallen guild members.
    Second, it would cast a Gate, if/when needed, to provide an egress for all guild members, alive and dead.
    Third, this Blue character would often be a wolf in sheep's clothing, that is, he/she would loot other Blue characters, thus turning himself/herself grey.

    I love UO and have been playing off-and-on since the late '90's.
    I know a lot about the game, but there is also a lot that I do not know. And I am not ashamed to admit that.
    UO was designed so that people of various degree of abilities and skills could ALL have fun.
    And no, it was NEVER intended to be equal for all, at least not until the great Trammel fiasco.

    Okay, okay, I apologize for the melodramatics.
    I also apologize if I sound like I am complaining.
    I am not complaining, I am simply voicing my opinions.
  7. corruption

    corruption Well-Known Member
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    Its not absurd to be expected that if you do the crime, you deal with the punishments -- its basic balancing principle. What you're asking for is an easier way out; why would every class not then be afforded some easy way out? I'm sorry -- but if you want to play a thief, get good at evasion. Relying on the ability to escape moments after performing a criminal act, to be able to do criminal acts, is a form of abusing the system imo -- and its a good thing that it works the way that it does here.

    Try thinking of it from the other side of the table. You're doing a platinum trade with someone else, you trade your 50k for 10 platinum, and boom a thief snatches it and recalls away instantly. Is this fair, in any way? Is it in the spirit of risk vs reward? And if you genuinely believe that this scenario fits into a risk vs reward situation -- explain how. Btw, 'they should be trading in a more secure location' is not an acceptable response; where is the risk in the thieves action if he can get away near-instantly? Its literally snatch and go -- and as long as you don't fizzle or get interrupted in the split second for reaction time, you're home free.

    If you can't see why this scenario is wrong for the shard, and wrong for the concept of risk vs reward, you're looking at it from too narrow of a perspective.
  8. Basoosh

    Basoosh Well-Known Member
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    I don't think it's ludicrous - you're the aggressor in this situation. You pulled the trigger. You got the jump on an unsuspecting victim. Committing a crime is completely optional. If it looks too risky for your blood, just don't do it, or wait until a more opportune time.

    To be honest, I dont' think being unable to recall is really that much of a hindrance anyways. UO's mount speed has forever been through the roof in terms of what passes as "normal MMO speed". Even without Recall, it's quite easy to get away from people just by running. Steal an item, dash off screen, hide. The majority of people will never find you.
  9. [Mobolin]

    [Mobolin] Active Member

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    I think anything that would draw "PK guilds" here should never, EVER, be implemented...at all. There are plenty of shards out there that cater to that playstyle, hence I play here, and they play there. I want to keep it that way. Not asking for Trammel, but griefing is already possible, there is no need to make it easier.
  10. SirLanceAlittle

    SirLanceAlittle Member
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    I love the fact that it has been assumed that my character(s) are criminal.
    My only mention of criminal activity was that of being a victim.
    I do not have a thief or a killer.
    I was simply attempting to champion what I felt to be an imballance here.

    I know there are those who agree; some of you actually PM'd me yesterday in IRC when I initially brought up this issue.
    I had forgotten the proper use of the "release" command so I killed my own tamed Hind and of course went Grey.
    That was when I noticed that I could not Recall home.

    This has, however, been a very productive post, though not necessarily for me.
    It is still good to see so many posted replies on this subject.
  11. Blaise

    Blaise Well-Known Member
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    You killed a blue critter and thus, were criminal, albeit for that short amount of time.
    If you don't engage in combat or criminal activity, you are free to recall at any time, even if you are red. Reds go dungeon hopping all the time and the only time they're held up is when they make an assault.

    I think there should be no flagging for attacking your own tames and perhaps that will be changed when they fix flagging for guildmates walking into your blade-spirits/EVs.
  12. corruption

    corruption Well-Known Member
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    I wager a bet that this quote is why people are assuming you're championing lesser punishments for criminal acts. Its certainly what stuck out to me in your initial post.

    However, thats besides the point.

    Regardless of what your actual intention, or impetus for posting this was, you have to think in terms of everything this mechanic affects. Matters of tame control and thus attacking your own tame could be considered; but its not the same as the penalty for an aggressive criminal act. They are 2 separate entities -- and any changes to the penalty for an aggressive criminal act will affect ALL criminal acts. The real question you should be asking is, what constitutes a criminal act, and is there any room for review of them. Giving an easy out to people who will use it for nefarious deeds is what is not desired; and perhaps you just don't see that this request would lead to exactly that as you originally phrased it.
  13. SirLanceAlittle

    SirLanceAlittle Member
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    As far as I know, Blade Spirits and EVs have never been controllable. Are they actually controllable, like Summoned creatures are, by the caster here on UO Ren? Or is the dev. team considering making them controllable? And how is this going to relate to guildmates?
  14. corruption

    corruption Well-Known Member
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    Unrelated to controlling BS or EV. The only thing he's talking about is if you cast a BS or EV, and it hits your guildmate -- it won't flag you as criminal. Currently it does.
  15. Ezekiel

    Ezekiel Renaissance Staff

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    The travel spell restrictions only apply to characters that are criminals, being a murderer has no bearing on whether or not you're under temporary restrictions from using travel spells. While a character is criminal (criminal timer lasts 120 seconds, from the time of the last criminal act committed) they will be unable to use the recall spell. They are however, still free to utilize the gate-travel spell as means of transportation while criminal.

    However, attacking another player (which will flag you as criminal) will also put you under the effects of the "heat of battle", which will disallow the aggressor from using both recall & gate-travel for a duration of 30 seconds after the aggressor engaged into combat with the victim. After the heat of battle timer has expired, you will be able to utilize the gate-travel spell even while criminal. So, this means that if you attack another innocent, you will be under the effects of heat of battle for 30 seconds (which will restrict all travel spells from being cast) & additionally the criminal effects for the following 90 seconds (120 seconds total criminal) assuming that you do not commit further actions which would extend the criminal timer.
  16. SirLanceAlittle

    SirLanceAlittle Member
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    Yep, I understand the mechanics with regrads to this issue. I don't like them, but I understand them. ;)

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