Limiting Bonded Pet Deaths

So there's been a lot of chat about how taming is currently tremendously OP with the fact that you can have two dragons and a mare, all bonded with no risk of losing them. I know a lot of the discussion has been around changing the amount of stable slots a dragon or mare uses and also the stat penalty on death, but I was thinking of a different route.

I'm not sure how much coding this requires, so take this with a grain of salt. I propose including taming wands into the UO:R. Basically, you could find a wand off of high level creatures of dragon taming or nightmare taming, etc. This would create risk for the tamer as it is now something that is directly lootable by the player base and creates some risk similar to a dexxer or bard carrying around their slayers.

What does everyone think?


Ok, forget all that stuff. The TLDR version of this post is how to increase the risk tamers have to a sort of equivalent to other templates. This doesn't mean nerfing tamers damage, fire breath, etc. It just means increasing the risk of losing their pets(weapon) like other classes. As of page 3, this has changed to mean a pet will only stay bonded through 3-4 deaths. Go!

What exactly would the wand do and how would it resolve the issue?

I'm guessing his suggestion means the tamers must be holding the item to issue commands to high level tames.

If u kill a tamer and loot their book/wand then they cannot issue commands to the pet. To take it a step further I think he is suggesting a link made between the animals and the item so if u lose the item you essentially lose the animal?

At least that's how I read it

That's generally correct. I would make it so that the tame isn't lost, but once the wand is lost, you lose the ability to control the tame. So you could have a stable full of dragons, but without the wand either in hand or in a pack, you would lose control of the tame/not be able to issue it commands.

This would add in risk to the tamer as a wand of dragon taming would/should fetch the equivalent to a high level slayer.

Slayer weapon or slayer instrument?

If you want to nerf tamers, kill them.

It seems to stop whatever they're doing at the time.

Another thing to keep in mind is that not all Tamers have a stable full of bonded pets so it does take a substantial time investment or financial investment to get to the point of not losing your stuff. I made the mistake of farming with my best dragon, who was unbonded and PFR quickly showed me why that was a bad idea. That being said, I do think melee fighters have it far worse than other classes, you slip up one time and you can really lose a small fortune in equipment.

... and that's the issue most have with tamers right there.


HOWEVER, I'd hate to see compensation made for it at this time. Some want blessed weapons.

If you're going to bless weapons then bless my lute. It's only fair.
If you're going to bless his lute, then bless my large dragon fishing ship. It's only fair.
If you're going to bless his large dragon fishing ship, then bless my reagents. It's only fair.
If you're going to do all that, I want a place to PvM free of player killing. It's only fair.

It's the initial stroke of pacifying the player base complaints that lead to the decline of Ultima Online (Trammel) and I believe that the lack of Trammel is why most people came here in the first place.

So no, no thank you. No wands of taming and no blessed slayer weapons regardless of how fair and balanced the proposal is.

I believe taming is far from "perfected" here. It's... really... (sack of insults).

Anyway...


Chris has addressed this already, a couple of times.

Pet stat loss will return and when it does, I'm going to kill A LOT of "bonded" pets.

Boats are already blessed

Ohhh you knew what I meant !

You hear that? It's my thief crying.

I understand that Chris addressed this, but it still comes back to the uneven playing field currently. I'm certainly against doing anything that adds more trammel to the server, but it also seems clear that bonded pets are here to stay and even with 2.5%, the penalty isn't steep enough.

Few people seem to disagree with the fact that taming is OP even with the 2.5% stat penalty, so why not have a constructive conversation about how we can level things out without also changing the current system?

Going off what wylwrk said, as a dexxer I realllllly DONT want dexxers buffed. I think they are fine the way they are. It takes risk to develop your personal economy as it has in ages past. Dexxers being too weak isnt the problem. I do see a place for bonding but its pvp and pvm application is too OP. I bonded a rare snow jaguar and now I can show off without it getting one shotted by one of the griefers in my area and lost forever. Its not going to get me rich though unless people want to pay a fee to pet it, which I am open to.

However, I question the impact of stat loss. I've sat and watched a tamer melt elder gazers, and lich lords. Where exactly does the threat of stat loss come from because it doesnt seem to be coming from the monsters.

I feel like we're talking in circles on this.

There's really two different issues at play, but people keep lumping them together. One issue is tamers don't have any/enough risk. The other issue is tamers are far more powerful than all the other class archetypes. No amount of added risk is going to solve the second issue.

Hallelujah!

Tamers have always been overpowered when it comes to PvM. That will continue to be the case as long as dragons can be tamed. You can nibble around the edges, but no other class can or should be as powerful as the combination of one or more dragons and whatever skills the tamer has at its personal disposal. There is a legitimate debate to be had about how many control slots a tamer should have. A decision was made on this shard that the number should be 8. I personally agree with that number and think it would be a mistake to change it now. Chris and other staff on this shard have done a great job of adding content that is challenging even for a relatively large group of tamers. If you nerf taming, much this content may be out of reach to all but the most powerful of guilds or all but the largest gatherings of players. In my opinion, that would be an unfortunate and unwelcome development.

More generally, why is there a need to "level things out" when it comes to PvM? Warriors and mages are more powerful than tamers when it comes to PvP. Tamers are more powerful when it comes to most PvM. That has been the case for as long as Ultima Online has been around and should remain so. If you disagree you are probably playing the wrong game.

A better solution (in my opinion) for those that enjoy playing non-tamers in the PvM setting and who are upset about their class's inferiority would be to lobby for more content that is exclusive to non-tamers. The Halloween event is a great example of this.

tldr

o' the tears from thine eyes taste to sweet to get past ye first words

nerf tamers = population drop = eventual server death

it takes 2 days of actually playing the game to make a tamer, quit your bitchin' and go make one

Yes. All of my likes. Every like that ever liked a like.
Like... oh ma gawd.

If there's a monthly allotment of likes, please place them all on that post.



Anyway, to remain the attention whore that I can be at times... I'll reiterate,
If you want to nerf tamers, seriously guys... go kill them. It's quite easy and very fun.

If there's anything to be added to this game, I'd hope for tamer tears to be added as a PvP currency.

What would you buy with your tamer tears?

explain to me why tamers shouldnt face risk like every other template in the game? This is unbalanced. I agree that they should be most powerful PVM, but I don't agree that a tamer should have no consequences for being able to push the highest content.

Re: "8 is the correct number, and it would be a mistake to change it now" really just means you have gained a massive advantage from it and you care more about your own advantage than the balance of the game and the core UO characteristic of risk and reward. You just want to be rewarded and for some reason keep your class the only one that gets rewarded without any risk. That is good for a shard based on eschewing trammel? Ok bro..

Sad that Basoosh posted this what now 4 times in seperate threads?

Lets focus on non risk element because tamers are the most powerful PvM class and they should remain as such. It is the rulebook of UO.

But they should also be introduced to risk. This is the main question, so stop writing about how OP tamers are and write about ideas to play tamers risjy too.