Mind Blast dmg accurate?

Curly Sue, you've done a great justice this day. There may be hope for you yet. Only issue is that I've never seen a mage rocking bone armor.

Why not just make mind blast cost more mana aligned with similar dmg spells like FS, Curly sues points are correct about dexxers. Hopefully Dev's show them some love.

Thank you Sirs... True about the bone armor. Most PVP mages wouldn't trade the Med loss for the added protection because most mages PVP with other mages since PVP dexxers are rare here. That's my guess. It's like shields... They are useless because PVP dexxers are rare.

However, that's not really part of the argument... Just stating how dexxers are at a disadvantage in general. The mindblast spell being the biggest culprit. Even though people don't use it because it doesn't do anything when they do... Doesn't mean it's existence alone isn't causing an unfair advantage. Mages don't even need to use the spell because everyone is at a disadvantage to prevent it from being used.

It would be like dexxers having a special move that did up to 40 damage without missing to mages who had intel above 80 no matter what the other stats are. That would be the equivalent idea in my opinion. Dexxers would never use this but Mages would be stuck with 80 intel to prevent it.

My opinion... Get rid of it... T2A was fine without it and Mages still had the advantage, even with charged weapons still in, in almost all PVP situations. Not sure why they added it, and we don't even have charged weapons here.

Yeah, pretty much.

Dexers are at a disadvantage to mages but I don't think it has much to do with dex pots. Whether I'm playing a mage or dexer I just pick a total pool of stat points starting at 255 and decide my stats from there. This is assuming I'm pvping in the field and dex/str pots will be legal. If for some reason the character was intended to duel within specific rulesets I would pick my stats based on a 225 cap. I don't really want to publicize exactly what stats I use but if I was pvping on the field as a dexer I'd probably be something in the range of 86 str 59 int 80 dex prior to potions - and I would use both potions before entering any combat situation where I'm likely to take damage.

As far as dexers being at a disadvantage to mages I agree but I don't know what to do about it because they are problems that seem inherent to the era and game design. Ranged attacks are better. Guaranteed/combo'd damage is better. Casters have different delay on hits and can time them for damage spikes. And that's what kills in pvp games. Slow hits that you can't guarantee when you need them are just not as effective.

Eras after renaissance had a lot more tools in the dexer kit and they were much more effective. My best advice to dexers would just be to use spears because the para blow mechanic is the single best killing tool that dexers have available to them.

But for the record, if there were good ideas brought forward to bring pure dexers more in line with mages I would truly support them. I just haven't come up with them myself. I think it's possible some kind of archery buffs (hitting on the run specifically) might help although it doesn't help the true melee'rs. And most ideas people have involve defensive bonuses and I'm more concerned with making dexers capable of killing.

Hi Mes,
I agree with your post, but we shouldn't turn this into a "general" dexxer at a disadvantage post. My post was meant to say that dexxers are already at a disadvantage, the Mindblast item just increases it further for no reason. Aside from this one item that dictates a dexxers stat points while not dictating it the same way for a mage... I have no further adjustment opinions.

Thanks,
Curly

Doesn't Mind Blast add an interesting wrinkle to pvp on this shard? On a former shard with it being INT-vs-INT, most dexers had incentive to run 25 INT (although armor played a part in that as well). So it was relatively boring, there was actually more variability in mage stats.

I think a bigger handicap to dexers on this shard isn't Mind Blast but rather armor. Namely that mages get ~36 AR available to them with no penalty whatsoever. Of course, dexers can have Magic Resist skill, but it's both less effective (on a percentage basis), and takes up 1/7th of their valuable skill allocation.

So IMO, if the goal is to balance dexer-vs-mage, I would think there are other ways to do it that are both more effective and would also maintain (or increase) the degree of template variability out there.

On the other hand, Curly Sue aren't you in another thread talking about how your dexer never dies here? So wouldn't that imply things are reasonably balanced already?

I'm simply stating facts that are relevant to the discussion regarding how MB effects both mages and dexxers.

I have no complaints aside from this item.

My dexxer can't really be considered because he partakes in PKing mostly in outnumbered ambushes against mostly lone targets.

I don't PVP in "fair" 1v1 fights if you could even consider a 1v1 fight with a dexxer and a mage a fair fight. So to answer your question, no I don't think that means things are balanced. It really doesn't mean anything at all.

Again, we shouldn't make this into a general balancing thread. It's more about the fact that MB in itself is a relatively unused spell that restricts a dexxers stats while not restricting a mages stats in the same way by simply existing.

Put in intel pots and we are right as rain... But what reg do you make it from? Etc..

My .02 is that it's used, even if it's not cast, because people gimp themselves because of it's existence. Which is awesome.

The OP questions have been answered, so we're all going off topic at this point. I'd rather talk (and hear) about balancing, as opposed to seeing a bunch of folks just say they like MB and leave it at that.

Good sport. RRG's tactics mostly consist of getting a parablow then 2 shots of vanq hx-bow which are likely to hit 30 at least. That was my experience at least

Curly, fyi, spider silk is not used for any potions. So we can maybe crush it and be smart as spiders!

Night sight. . . not that many would miss night sight potions.

Hi Dalavar,
When you say it forces "people" to gimp there stats... Do you mean dexxers? Because as we said, mages can still run 100 100 25 and just chug an agility pot. It only forces dexxers to run gimped base stats.

I understand what you are saying about the spell being a "tactical" spell that makes pvp fun when trying to pair it with cunning / clumsy / etc.. I agree that it adds a bit there.

Maybe just more of a spread required to do so much damage would be nice. I just don't like how it dominates base stats limiting peoples builds (especially dexxers. My opinion is it should need to be combined with the stat specific spells, or punish self buffing charectors to be useful.

Ok, so at the moment the spell does 2.5 points away from max damage with the old base stats of 100 100 25. Thats crazy.

If you add a -10 to the formula it would put you at optimum risk range with base stats at 27.5 damage.

The use of strength spell would add 5 damage to this putting it at 32.5 (above optimum risk)

A self buffing player would put the spell at 2.5 from max damage 37.5 (shits weak!). Could also be achieved from 2 stat spells (cunning and clumsy?)

A self buffing paired with clumsy could put the spell at max damage.

In other words, the spell is currently 10 hit points over powered.

Thenew formula should be high stat - low stat \ 2 -10.

This way base stats do base damage and the spell doesnt start 2.5 hp away from the spell cap..

Just my suggestion. Te way it is now is actually less interesting than i could be in my opinion.

Yo Curly! Could you bottom-line it for us simpletons? What stats are you running for mages and dexxers? 100 25 100 and 90 90 45 str dex int respectively? I'm assuming one should chug a agility potion when being engaged as a mage. Does this apply to monsters?

I don't PVP by choice but I don't want to be blasted to bits in 5 seconds either.

Yep, good point, that is what I meant and is certainly a more direct way to frame the issue.

I think that's a really good idea that helps out unaware/new players and offers some strategic opportunity for more advanced players.

Hi Plankton. I'm no expert but my guess would be as follows for PVE.

Mage - 100 25 100 and chug a dex pot when attacked by a mage. Not sure about the damage done from monsters but it shouldn't be a problem since you don't want to constantly be chugging pots while farming. You could drop strength 10 and up dex 10 for further safety if you are willing to give up 5 HP. Just dont take strength pots with this build unless you absolutely need to. Keep in mind 5 hp could be the difference between escape and death. I've seen 2 shot farmer kills...

For PVP it would be different because you would plan on fighting while using pots all the time.

For a PVE dexxer my guess would be 90 95 40 to avoid MB mayhem without having to constantly chug pots to even things out. Again, you can go 5 pts lower on dex for added safety.

Keep in mind that these are based on hunting so you wont be using pots with the exeption of the mage when attacked by a mage pk.

This is also only relevent if you plan on sticking around when attacked by a mage pk mostly.

If you are a heavy PVE guy, you will probably be more focused on getting out than getting ready for a fight. If your recall fails and you end up on the run, this is where this stuff would come in.

Again PVP is more complicated because you want to max out your avail stat points from pots while not spreading your stats out in MB mayhem.

Lastly, I am no PVP expert. The guys who faction would be the best to ask. You don't ask the viet cong their advice on open field warfare. All we understand is tunnels and tom sneakery..

Even if that were true, you're still eating almost 30dmg from MB as a mage, which is too much. Once again I ask you, if every dexxer template already requires magery to be implimented therein (which it is if you actually want to survive dumps), why would you want to run 100/25/100 anyway? No one is doing this that is a serious pvper, which is why there hasn't been alot of support to this thread from the pvp community.

Curly Sue you are all over it. I hope the discussion helps that particular spell be looked it. It has too much influence on the way dexxers are forced to build there characters. Dexxers are already at a disadvantage due to the fact that A. They have to catch up to target, and B. when at target there are two rounds of checks to see if a strike hits.

Its not really complaining that is "unfair" as much as it saying that the spell has too much influence on the overall game. Can you name another spell, skill, or item that forces opponents to build their character in certain way.

At least we can say with this much discussion it obviously has an impact on gameplay.

What does this mean?

One is the hitting chance and I think one is the damage chance where damage can actually be 0.

That's my interpretation though, not sure what he meant.