Event Center Gates - Why perma open?

Please close these gates after events, like you used to, Chris. They provide a permanent Trammel environment for safe idling, safe trading, safe nose picking and reg free safe traveling.

Apart from that, there is already a big over-abundance of bank guards in this world, who already decrease the risk of trading to a minimum. Plus the 5-10sec (dont know the exact value) time delay until traded items can be stolen. Actually, while writing about it, I realize how ridiculous it is to play a classic thief. *melodramatic breakdown*

Wow! There's a delay between trading and stealing?! That's a awesome! That prevents people from making a deal and then using a pre-made macro to steal the item back right away.

That was the idea. The official tale is as follows: Way before I joined this shard, trade scam thieving was rampant. You could set your 'Last Object' on the item in a trade window, cancel the trade and insta steal the item (normal era accurate gameplay btw). This happened quite a lot, everybody was complaining, and as we know, Telamon hates complaining, help tickets and even the slight chance that people might be leaving the shard because of broken hearts due to lost pixels.
So he introduced a time delay until traded items could be stolen. (I was too lazy to test the exact value of the timer out so far.) He also forbid to use IRC and the forum for scams.

While this might be perfectly fine, because trade window canceling indeed is pretty mean (it isn't a problem at all actually, when you know how to conduct proper trades e.g. with a table in between the trade partners like in Serpents Hold), these measures also prevent very normal day to day thieving in cities. I sneaked upon many people trading their stuff without proper security measures (e.g. casting reveal), but wasnt able to steal their traded items, because the system right now also prevents third parties from stealing traded items and not only the toons involved in the trade.

To sum it up, while trade window canceling was succesfully prevented, another classic main aspect of the thieving gameplay (stealing stuff from people that are trading) has been destroyed. And I even didn't mention the huge amount of guards around banks.

Now closing the cycle: All this is obsolete, when green event center gates are open. It is placed in Trammel (no thieving, snooping and PKing at all) and provides a 100% safe environment for trading and loitering.

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Someone brought this up a long time ago when the gates were being kept open 24/7. Telamon was doing a great job at closing them promptly after events. I see they're back up now.

Ideally the event gates should open 10 mins before CTF books open and close immediately when the books vanish. Player events shouldn't have gates imo. If it's a resist event then use a single gate from Occlo and directly to the resist event, bypass trammel. The event center should also kick you to town (and hidden in a random spot) if you remain in there for an extended period of time following an event. You really don't need more than 5-10 minutes to use the stable and bank valuables.

Why must they be manually closed and opened anyways shouldn't it just be automatic close 5 minute before and after. It literally is trammel.
Especially in bucs den!!!

Also those green gates just look unappealing. It looks like a free shard.

Making an item unstealable after it is traded is pretty much out of spirit of UO too. A better solution would be that someone who was just involved in a trade can't steal because his "skill delay" gets activated. This actually makes sense because in real life if someone just handed you an object is he really going to steal it right from you when you're looking right at him and the object is in your hand???!
However, This way a character hidden near the two traders can steal the item which is just how the game should work.

If you remove the possibility of being stolen from during a trade just because it is offensive to some players then you should also remove pking and house looting because these are the EXACT SAME in that the outcome is players simply lose something for not being careful.

Is it such an inconvenience to find an isolated place and cast reveal before a trade? It's not as inconvenient as filling your house with tables and trash barrels.

Also why can't we trade trapped objects?
Why do traps suck?

All this trammel affects the entire game and lowers the amount of types of player interactions.
This reduces the sand box feeling of UO which is the main appeal of the game.

Would getting rid of some of this trammel style stuff really make the game so harsh and unplayable for new players? Would it really send us spiraling into a dark age of griefing?

If so then why is this the most popular shard ATM and not some trammel only server. People could enjoy perfect tranquility on one of those shards but that's not what they want.

They want to feel the sweet ache of calamity. They want to taste their own tears.

I disagree, people love to say want want felucca, until something they don't like or agree with happens to them. Then it's all aboard the trammel train going at the speed of light, headed for trammelprotectionandfixesville.

I agree that they should be closed.

I don't agree with this because everyone gets 3 accounts making it trivial to simply use a pre-made macro on a different account.

No, it's not any more of an inconvenience to cast reveal and that is a good practice. However, one could cast reveal and find nothing, initiate a trade and then delay the trade a bit while their stealther moves in, complete the trade and steal the item back quickly. The way I see it, house looting, when done without exploiting, is perfectly acceptable because appropriate tools have been put into place to prevent or mitigate the act. If someone fails to follow good practices, then it's their own fault for getting looted (I got looted and this is how I see it). PKing is a legitimate part of the game too. There are risks for the pker and there is a sort of justice system in place to deal with the PKs - other players hunting them down.

Trade scamming is not at all like these two activities. There is no criminal justice system in place to handle these scams. There is no way, short of having a second character chain casting reveal, to stop them from occurring and even then there's nothing to stop a revealed character from doing the same thing. There are no risks for the stealer other than a damaged reputation, but that's nothing that can't be solved by making new forum accounts and characters. I think that the uncertainty in the ability to faithfully carry out trades would harm the shard more than blocking unfettered trade scamming ability.

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I'm laughing hard at the idea of being so inept at finding a quick, random place to make a trade and THEN being unable to understand that it might not be a great idea to just stand still for a while after a trade to feel like they need another account chain-casting reveal to protect them.

i guess your tune has changed since you posted this

quote: Cynic http://uorforum.com/threads/revenge-on-the-hammer.8253/#post-66604
"Touche, however, I wouldn't take a verite/valorite runic anywhere outside of CTF. Everytime I leave the protection of my house, town, or event lobby I am prepared to lose everything I have on me and laugh it off. If I'm in the middle of a CTF, that has historically provided Trammel, and I'm booted because of a mechanic that just isn't polished, and lose all my stuff, then I'll be a tad upset.

I wouldn't be asking for Trammel. I had a pretty long argument conversation with @@Telamon about how the event lobby handles players. I cannot choose where the event lobby spits me out and as such I could be a sitting duck. Now, if I leave the event area naked then who cares right? I still do. Faction points, ego, whatever you want to call it.. I care a tad bit. When choosing a gate to exit you're essentially being fed to the wolves if alone and unprepared.

I believe I angered Telamon when I noted that if a group of salty pk's set up 100's of candelabras and a turret outside (for example) a friday night fights event gate, then the server would lose it's mind. It wouldn't take someone, especially someone like @@snap dragon to locate each "random" spot that the event lobby spits you out of and set up some elaborate scheme to rob you blind or kill you. Telamon left me with the advice to use a scout or not bring a consensual pvper to CTF, of which the latter I though was insultive. However, I do use a scout now and I find it silly. I would be happy with a traditional moongate and/or the freedom to recall directly OUT of the event lobby. Also, why is it necessary for the event lobby to boot anyone, anyway? If you lose connection you should just be able to idle there until you log back on, it's not like you can do much in there. Maybe afk macro without any threat to you whatsoever, outside of that I see no obvious issue to me."


Personally I think the only reason it doesn't auto close now is probably because so many people told Telamon how mad they'd be if they lost their stuff due to being kicked out. So he has to leave it open all the time or stay at his desktop for hours past CTF to be sure each of his little lambs makes it safely to their houses before closing the event center.

I will and still do wait for people to leave the event center to attack them. I feel no shame in this.

If more people would try actively playing a thief, even for just a few weeks, they'd understand how to work within the game to, quite easily, prevent almost all stealing. It's not that difficult and at some point you can only blame yourself for either forgetting those tactics or being careless. To me, that's how UO should ideally work. You have a framework and within that framework you have to think tactically to find solutions to problems. Some of the more exciting problems are the ones caused by your fellow players, like stealing and PKing and other dastardly acts because they're not as predictable. When you introduce more and more mechanics that automatically solve these problems, you discourage people from playing those types of roles within the game. Player variety makes UO interesting to me. I realize that is not the case for everybody but I do think it was important to the developers.

At any rate, we already have many things in place to discourage stealing on this shard. Having the event gates up all the time is just too much!

Blackeye has a 13 page thread about his thieving escapades. It doesn't seem like other thieves are lacking in anything but imagination.

My tune has not changed in regards to how the event center spits people out. Currently it spits you out in the vicinity of where you enter from, I think that's wrong. I still think you should have the freedom to recall directly out or given the opportunity to chose from a broader selection of gates.

Booted from the lobby AFTER the event is over and being booted into danger unexpectedly during an event are two different things. If I lose connection in a CTF I expect to not get dumped into Brit. If I lally gag in the lobby after a CTF that's a different story.

I know very well that you purposefully look for people after events to attack them when they leave the lobby. Personally, I've gotten over this. At first I thought it was a pretty lame (although smart) way to "pvp." I really couldn't care less anymore and come to the conclusion that you just need to take precautions when entering/exiting the event lobby. I just didn't think it was fair at first because snap dragon would come up with all sorts of shenanigans around these event lobby's and she/he was quickly addressed and mechanics were changed.

TL;DR: My position hasn't changed at all.

Some beautiful bright soul GMing fencing and tactics off a "telacat" in the event lobby.



I decide to follow suit and suck on the sweet "teat" of risk-free gains. The feeling of perfect security makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside, like hugging mama.


I like it so much that I decide to AFK for awhile in trammel while I make this post.





Isn't this kind of cost-less and risk-free skill gain the reason that the no reg cost duel pits got taken away? It's a shame because I feel I would really enjoy the convenience of free dueling...


Seriously though, just automate the lobby 10 minutes before and after, disable all combat in them, remove the kicking of people out of the event area, add a city moongate, and allow recalling out.

Blackeye - is that you cosplay-ing it?

Training Perfected: Trammel
I appreciate many of the features added to this shard, however the new trammel training center is awful... I mean I am not just calling it that, its literally trammel....

Can the staff please weigh in on this? Is this the new norm?

I seriously cannot even wrap my mind around trammel being open 24/7 on a shard that says on its from page "Without the influences of trammel".

For those of you who know me, this is not something I am always crying out like some do about its too "trammel" but this is too far, as it literally is....

I would like to know if this is the new norm, known and ok with staff, as I will seriously consider where I play if this is the direction this shard is headed. I really love so much about this shard, but I wont keep establishing myself at a place opening Trammel 24/7 training grounds




I am specifically referring to the event center becoming trammel training ground, and AFK area.... There has been discussion on the mechanics of how to eject people, and that is a different conversation. But the ability to endlessly wack away at a creature that takes no damage, while you take no damage, and gain skill, and can afk in complete safety is the issue here....

These people should be ashamed of themselves.

that's my cat. I told it to follow chris during an event last week. I'm pretty sure chris is sick or not able to get on this weekend otherwise he would have handled this.

I made a trade with "Tea" earlier... trying to remember who it is... want to killl SOOOO MANY TIMES.