Request for Comment - Champion System

Is this well thought out in terms of player interaction?

This punishes you very, very heavily for having your harrower discovered by people. More people = more competition = less plat.
It's hard not to be discovered, because you have to go through the star room.
The obvious inclination would be to kill the people who find you, but that's hard to do here because of statloss.

On OSI, you didn't take statloss if you died in dungeons so you could defend your harrowers and keep people out. Statloss kinda throws a wrench in it here.



I can tell you what I'd do with this system - keep eyes on the star room all the time and watch for other people's harrowers so I could show up with all my friends and leech their plat. I would avoid summoning harrowers of my own except for off-hours when I know that people who would show up to my harrower wouldn't be around. Is this the way you intend for players to act after these changes?

It would be a headache for you, too. I'll again tell you what I'm going to do - stick my stealther in the star room all the time when I'm around. This will annoy other players, who will kill me and then complain about me ghosting the star room. Staff will get invovled, I will complain that they killed me and that's why I'm a ghost, and then I will go res up and the cycle will repeat.

Everyone knows the biggest group on the shard would love the lack of stat loss during harrowers. Anyone else trying to run a harrower and unable to defend it will be slaughtered (do you have 8-10 pvpers online x 3 accounts?). Stat loss suspension for harrowers is a terrible idea and would only empower a certain (largest) group to steam roll the summoning group. If you cannot match a guilds numbers and then secondly their level of pvp your going to loose.

Payout for a harrower is a distributed 1k or 820 of plat? I thought one of the goals was to reduce the plat payout for those that use three accounts? I would need to know how much plat is distributed and to how many people during past harrowers to compare. Not intended to be critical of the work staff has done so far... Three well run tamers with magery for the tentacles that can now earn possibly 60 plat each?

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Yes, I still think tying the plat earned to one account only would go a long way. That, and everyone who contributes to the taking down of the Harrower should receive some platinum. As for making it harder to kill - there were plenty of good ideas by Chris and other players earlier in this thread. It's a shame to see none of them carried out.

I also appreciate and applaud the time spent working on this solution, though. It's apparent that staff has been working hard on it.

Just have the plat drop on one ip per account. I am sure all those "families" that log on for the harrower can understand and accept it and deal with it. This system, seems like in some cases you will get enough or more plat on one char than you did if you used thee. I thoughtTHE ISSUE was too much plat getting into the system and it needed to be scaled down. Instead of a 20 plat drop like it was go to 10 or 15.

What is the problem here? Evaluate the change based on the problem that is actually trying to be resolved and not personal desires or assessment...


IF the problem being solved here is too much plat per harrower kill, then your cap of 1k does that just fine.

If the problem is fair distribution of the reduced plat & giving it out to the top 40 damagers, then this solution is just fine for that.

However, some have stated that the problem to be solved is that people 3box harrowers. If they can do that and still be in the top 40 damagers for all 3 accounts, then haven't they earned that plat?

If stopping triple boxing is truly the problem to be solved, then segmenting Plat distribution to the top 40 damagers and capping total plat is not going to do it directly. It will prevent awarding plat to the accounts that show up or go active in the last phase and toss a couple of EBs. With this solution, they only need to be proficient at running all 3 accounts during all phases to break into the $$.

I like the new system. Adds a lil more risk for groups that want to summon the harrower and run the risk of it being announced in IRC. 1k platinum is more than enough plat for killing the harrower. The split is fair and it allows more group activity rather than setting up an ebolt macro. The player that puts in the most work and does the most damage will receive the most plat and so fourth.

Is there a mechanic to prevent people from farming the first phase to get epic damage? I hope there is some way to cap the damage allowed or force the damage done into a partition per a phase. Otherwise, I'm just going to pop the harrower, farm the first stage for 30 minutes and then announce it on IRC.

This may be somewhere in here, so I apologize if I missed it, but.. How much plat, on average, has been distributed by past harrowers (since the advent of the public harrower)?

I agree with the sentiment of solving the right problem. If it's the amount of plat entering the economy, make sure the new amount is well below the average distribution.

If it's just fair distribution, I'm not sure that's really a problem for solving. Public harrowers came about to get more people involved, not so individuals can profit.

EDIT: One more thought, on the subject of "triple boxing" and limiting individual gain, I know you do not want to hurt father/son or husband/wife teams, so what if those people had to register? We had to talk to you to get approval for additional accounts.

By the numbers, what set of skills does the most damage during one of these events earning the most platinum?

If triple boxing is such a hard term to choke down, try triple clienting, which is actually accurate. If someone wanted to run actual triple boxes to proxy multiple IPs, it would be significantly more challenging to manage.

That said, this appears to be a pretty well crafted system of distribution. I feel it would be wholly appropriate on not only Harrowers but all Champion spawns, ultimately. Anything that pushes those who triple client down to a level of production on par with a single committed client, is going to benefit the shard as a whole.

Plankton, I bet it will be fairly hard to determine. Bards do damage based on what's provoked onto what, so that is highly variable. Same goes for melee warriors and whether they are packing slayers, if the mobs are slayer susceptible at all, and how well they stay on target (also alive). Tamers are probably relegated to the top damage of a single tame (I think that's what I read). All told, seems like a damn good step toward balancing out the classes.

ya 3k to 3.5k is way too much

What's cool about this system is a guild could run harrowers and knowing how much plat they are going to get, they could keep track of and reward those who earned the actual skulls to summon the harrower. The people that couldn't make it due to RL etc.

OR hire a guild to provide defense for the harrower and pay them out a set amount, knowing that their pure defensive formation is not netting less plat as it would in the current design.

Yeah, I'm not really saying that the removal of stat loss is the answer here.
Just that this system is going to create some behaviors that players may not like. It's also going to create an uncomfortable mental conflict for players who are having their harrowers raided - players will be inclined to fight for what is theirs in the face of statloss, which ultimately nobody can beat. I'm not sure that this will be particularly fun for people trying to enjoy the champ spawn system.

I think that global removal of statloss would be an awful idea, but maybe something where you don't take statloss for dying in a dungeon with the harrower active in it might be a good solution. If you want high risk high reward, systems that encourage players to fight tooth and nail over harrowers are probably a good thing. The current proposed system will ultimately encourage two behaviors. The first is absolutely relentless scouting of the star room, and the second is that for those who spawn harrowers will have to begrudgingly bend over and take it when they're raided.

I think this will have a very heavy impact on the number of people actually willing to spawn harrowers. People don't like to spawn shit only for people they don't like to profit.

So you're not saying the removal of stat loss in dungeons is the answer, but removal of statloss in the dungeon that matters might be the answer. Hmm, okay.

Removing statloss for dying in dungeons makes it less risky for players to raid and murder innocents at harrower events. If you're interested in high risk and high rewards, you would be pushing a system where murderers who murder innocents will have a high risk for doing so (and heavy consequence) for failing. But that's not what you're doing, you want to increase the risk to innocents and reduce the risk for murderers and the cost when they fail. People who come later under this system will have a more tough time getting platinum than people who are ready to go and do damage throughout the phases of the spawn.

Murdering should always carry a hefty consequence. Murdering enough to be in statloss should always carry a hefty consequence. If anything in the game should be risky, it should be running around on stat reds murdering blues. If we removed statloss in this situation, it would eliminate the risk of reds coming into the harrower, murdering all the innocents (and going deep into stat), stealing the spawn, and be heavily rewarded for it. Why would you suggest this be the answer?

Harrower spawning was rolling along just fine with the previous system where tons of people you don't like will profit. So even if they don't like the rest of the server profiting, they're still willing to do it because they are also heavily rewarded. We know this because it's what happened.

Telamon,

Does damage done in each of the phases count for different amounts towards the reward? Implementing something like this and adjusting it could encourage more payouts for people who start the spawn (and are there for the first phase) or encourage people to come at the end (by weighting damage done in the later phases and to the tentacles). For instance, damage done in the first phase could count for 50% towards the reward thereby giving a heavy advantage to those who first spawn the harrower.