Discussion about "heat of battle" changes

I'm just not agree with that:

i can be red for a lot of reasons, not just because i wanna do pvp 24/7

keep on discussing on it! See you around guys




Sally

IMO these flagging conditions are completely fair to everyone except those who want to be red, orange, or crim and not fight. My mind is blown with some of these crazy scenarios people are coming up with. Let's not forget that this was added on OSI for good reason.

The original post did mention the possibility of blues not being able to recall if they attacked criminals or murderers. I don't do factions but I do play an anti-pk char and I'll fight reds when I can, but often times I've been attacked by their buddies and had to evade and recall. I'm not going to fight in a lopsided fight when I'm outnumbered since dexxers have more to lose and it's just plain stupid. I think blues should retain the right to recall even if they engaged the criminal or red first, otherwise you'll have more cases of a single red waiting on blues to attack only to call in the gank squad. The last thing any shard needs to do is discourage blues from fighting criminals or reds.

I agree a million percent blues should be able to come and go as they please.....

I can live with blues being able to recall at anytime. My main focus is orange and reds!

Lightshade, I know you like to believe that you have all this clout and whatnot, but trust me, if you were in the field I would know, because I'm there every day. I've got 2 chars sub 20 on the overall pvp leaderboard and I've seen you out in the field once or twice at best on your radical larry. You may be able to lie to the guys who don't know better, but you and I know that you're barely ever on, let alone on the field.

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If pvp happened in game as much as it does in the forums or irc, there would be no problem here

That's no joke. I don't understand why so many people who don't have oranges want to weigh in on what they feel should happen with heat of battle between them.

Recall pvp is a blight. As many other players are saying, those who avail themselves to pvp systems such as murdering and factions should have to deal with heat of battle. There is no reason reds and oranges have to complain about getting the fights that they signed up for.

The most important heat of battle issue I see right now revolves around gate travel, though. Reds should not be able to kill a newbie and pile through a gate ten seconds later, the gate bot abuse here is rampant and keeps the good guys from from being able to bring the reds to justice. The criminal recall restriction should apply to gate travel as well.

if heat of battle is such a problem lets change "ghosting" while we are at it

I'm in support of that as well, let's make this happen!!

All

You keep personally attacking me with lies, while I do not do the same to anyone else in this thread. Seriously, quit shaming yourself and start discussing the topic please.

I think you miss my point entirely, actually. Recalling is a tactic just as teleporting around is a tactic. HoB is a game-play limiting mechanic that limits the number of tactics you can employ and tries to force everyone into similar molds. You are essentially asking for a Trammel box fight, but to a lesser degree and you don't even realize it!

Its akin to a boxer telling a martial artist not to use his legs in a street fight.

Being able to zip around to your advantage is a tactic. That's what I was explaining that I did. I used to string out entire groups on other servers using that tactic alone. 5v1 I can't kill them, but string them out (if they're undisciplined and don't stick together) by off-screening and recalling around is completely feasible and i've done it more times than I can count.

Being the Guildmaster of a large guild, I get a LOT of feed back from more than just the usual couple dozen hard core PvP'ers, also. This is the kind of information that the group-think that tends to happen in the PvP circles typically ignores.

One of the major griefing (at least the non-PvP'ers see it this way) tactics that has been used for years on this server now is for someone to trick someone into a fight. The player defends their honor from taunts, actual attacks, harassment, etc...and attacks someone to right the perceived wrongs. That someone then calls in the gank squad.

Seriously, this happens all the time and I'm going to let you in on a little secret... It completely discourages these players from wanting to PvP more. If you want more people fielding, HoB needs to get removed, not expanded upon.

Don't get me wrong, I understand the points made in this thread. You want your kill. Its hard enough to close the deal, so to speak, without letting them recall. I get it. You want that instant gratification of killing your foe instead of having to hunt them down. Seriously, I get it, but that is your point of view and there are many other points of view.

In the end, none of these points of view out-weigh the potential for abuse/griefing and none of them justify such a game-limiting mechanic.

More options, not less.

Who are you orange to, Lightshade? Anyone? If you don't have participate in consensual pvp then I'd say your opinion doesn't matter much on the subject.

Let's assume that your statement is true and that it would even matter if it was true. We'll take that leap of faith for giggles.

You all claim that you need more people participating in PvP/Factions, but then say that those that are "supposedly" not participating should be ignored when they give you examples of things that they think need to change?

Did I understand this train of "logic" correctly?

I'll let you ponder that while I sleep. I have to get up for work at 4:30am.

Good Night, folks!

I think this issue is being complicated by grouping faction rules with red/grey/blue.

A player signs up for factions, and any rules that apply to faction fighting are willingly inherited. As to HoB within factions I have no interest and no opinion.

As for blues, greys, and even reds this is not a sub section of PvP. Changes here effect ever player on the server, and I include reds considering greifing new players and murdering hunters is not the only way to get murder counts in UO. When I field I am running anti PK/griefer and often pick up counts due to circumstance (like reds running around with blues for support, the thief that got you earlier and escaped). My main point here is that regardless if you play for one hour a week, or five hours a day, changes to blue/grey/red effect everyone.

My two cents on blue/grey/red HoB, I enjoy how random field fighting is almost boundless in the way of anything goes. For better or worse I feel field PvP should be unrestricted, and view HoB as an unneeded restriction.

Also assuming it is true, which it is, you would do a huge group of players a disservice by opposing changes that don't apply to you?

I have heard testament from your own members as to your inactivity, this isn't something I'm simply assuming. Also, I'm good at knowing who's who on the field. There are literally 0 people out fielding right now that I can't put a persona to so the angle of "I'm out there, you just don't know it's me!" doesn't really hold any credibility.

My point is, you have limited experience with the subject matter being discussed here, you have limited participation and therefore your opinion should be taken with a grain of salt as opposed to the opinions formed by those who have more experience and more knowledge of the situation. Consensual pvp outlets need to be just that, there is no reason to be orange (which is used only as a way to find fights, literally that is the only explanation) and then recall from the fights that you signed up for.

I look forward to whatever skewed logic you have to try to throw down tomorrow.

the only pvp I see is coward red squads gating to dungeons and pking blue tamers...so pvp is dead. Seems like the whole server is just for farming and being a Trammy!

I'm super sorry for citing examples where it would make sense. Crafters are generally non-combative and you're asking for an easy trap mechanism because you're not having success in doing it the hard way (actually fighting people who are ready to fight).

Let me just be perfectly clear: Telamon will never in the life of this shard implement a system wherein orange targets who are attacked, and do not return aggression, get heat of battle flagging. I'll literally wager my accounts on that. It's a terrible idea with no purpose served other than your ganks and egos. Good luck though in your regurgitated conversation.



All told, I wouldn't be upset if all HoB were removed altogether but I don't think it would have a positive impact on the shard.