As long as we've paved way for some alternatives to choose between I'm glad, may get things going. After that people can make up their minds, vote or however things work for new patches. Chris said in his first post to "play the devil's advocate" and we've kinda done that. @ShadowJack (just don't turn this thread into another discussion on stealing etc, stay on topic! )
I like all the ideas this thread brought up. My opinion is that every aspect of this game should be "unleashed" at it's full potential while keeping it close to era accurate. In this case , traps were programed and implemented in the game for obvious reasons.... And I do not think it was for PVE. My dream settings ? 1: Killing an innocent with trap pop a murder gump. ( probably tricky to code to keep track of who casted the trap) 2: GM traps are deadly. Level 6 poison and 90+damage for Dart. Explosion should be area 3: Fix telekinesis so it send a message that "container is trapped" when it is. (that count for the dng spawns too) I know i forget something but that would make me dam happy ! As for now, traps are ridiculous. It took me half an hour to understand what was going on after i created my tinker. And my tinker rot until that day. Please note this is just my wishes. Keep your good work.
It seems you're really suggesting a whole new trap system here, rather than fixing it. I can appreciate your main idea, the various uses traps would have, e.g. dart traps are made into backpack security items, etc. But, for me (and I believe many others) this is just not UO and I wouldn't wanna see it on UOR (maybe for another server). Far from era accurate and some ideas I think are arbitrary. Telekinesis: Why wouldn't telekinesis safely remove poison and explosion traps? It makes sense, the trap effect takes place at the container. This would only make sense for the arrow trap, which is already the case I think? Dart: It seems arbitrary that you could only have dart traps on one's person. Why restrict a sandbox game like that? I strongly disagree! Bomb: Again, why restrict bomb traps to be immediately placed on the floor? It kills alot of the fun with boom boxes, a feature I believe many are looking forward to, and it also removes a whole kind of playstyle: dungeon trapping. I had a talk with Telamon the other day and he emphasized that there needs to be easy ways for new players to get educated. My impression was that as long as we have this the particular mechanics are less important. And it doesn't seem very hard to just add a pop-up window the first time you get boom-boxed. It could just pop up and provide the 5 most important thigns to think of: 1. Always remember: any chest, crate, wooden box or armoire can be trapped. 2. Some players sneak traps onto monster corpses to get you blown up. Be cautious! 3. You can safely remove a trap with telekinesis from a distance. 4. ... 5. ... I want to go more in the way of that.
Perhaps for in-town kills but not for kills in dungeons etc. Would make traps only viable for PVP-style players, turning them into a PVP asset which I'd say traps really are not. That's not the point of traps. As a pure thief or stealther it'd be really boring not being able to stay in towns.
Well, I'm not arguing "Anything that isn't exatly ... 1999", and I think I've shown by my earlier arguments that I'm trying to argue in other ways. But you're presenting a whole new system looking nothing like how it has been, and there is an era accuracy focus on this shard. That is, you're not presenting a perfection of some old feature but rather a whole re-make: e.g., enforcing specific functions for traps, something that I think ought to be the players choice. It seems to me that "era" would then simply be dropped altogether, but that's not the point of the shard even though we have the "history perfected" slogan. Telekinesis: Alright, got it! Making the remove trap skill better is nice of course. Dart: Yes, it would be natural to get hurt but that doesn't answer my point. My point is that reducing dart traps to the inventory seems arbitrary. It doesn't matter what rules apply to poison or explosion traps. Just because you'd get hurt by carrying an explosion trap it doesn't neccesitate that you can only carry dart traps. But as you explain, your motivation is to give traps definable functions, and here I disagree as it removes a sandbox element from the game. It should be the players choice how to use a trap. Bomb: With 'dungeon trapping' I meant someone sneaking a trap onto a monster corpse, but it could be in any way really. Perhaps I see a bypassing stranger and places a trap on the floor in his vicinity. That'd also be dungeon trapping. Boom box is another term for explosion trap.
I'll try answer the rest tomorrow but a quick note here to avoid misunderstanding: we didn't talk trap mechanics specifically and he didn't favor any particular mechanic. He emphasized education for new players and the means by which they can be educated. This is the determining factor to be taken into account for discussions such as traps and stealing. As I said: "I had a talk with Telamon the other day and he emphasized that there needs to be easy ways for new players to get educated. My impression was that as long as we have this the particular mechanics are less important."
But we want murder counts. I am all in favor of murder counts. I'm actually in favor of permadeath (though it's unlikely) and even preventing reds from macroing counts. Traps + murder counts = no problem.
We're talking about murder counts for the one who drops a trap on the ground, not the tinkerer who made it. Still no problem? If so, I hate you, you traitor.
Era-accuracy: Yea, I get your point. Arguing from era-accuracy is fishy. But does it have to mean that you're "obsessively focusing on era accuracy"? I've tried not to. We can drop the era argument though. I agree with your views on those systems you mention, but I'd take these to be additions rather than overhauling previous systems (perhaps not bonding)? Do these systems interfere with any previous functions or just add extra stuff? Dart: Alright, I get your point! Isn't there a difference in skill level, when dart/explosion can be made? There's a difference to telekinesis too, the dart one is telekenisis-proof! Bomb: That looks better! Dart trap is the obvious choice for a secure inventory but others can be used. There's a risk and reward element to it. Also, it could allow for some fun situations where snoopers actively trigger traps to get the victim killed. But it would probably never happen as the dart one is completely safe.
About telekinesis: I understand it makes sense, when you think of it, that Telekinesis triggers a trap when you open a chest using it. Now the game has a full array of Skills that cover the removing, detecting of traps. Unleash the full potential of this era... Make it so the skills have an utility, people will train different templates and adjust... Yes for some of the veterans that kind of change is often seen like a kick in the nuts but in the end the shard would benefit from this. About murder counts: Give counts to person that drop the box and the tinker and all his family. I can deal with this just the same way a PK can deal with stat lost. With time passing, i'm starting to believe the changes never happen because it turns into a huge argument about what is going to happen if we let people kill each other freely.. Why not just find out. Focus on the mechanics, make them enjoyable as much as possible and everyone should be happy ! (everyone but BlackEye but who cares!)
Murder count to the creator of the trap, unless it was created outside of their pack (proper technique). Anything else is just not ok.
Read and understood! Got nothing more to say. Nice to see Random and Blaise joining the discussion, I think we need some more voices than you and me, One. Agreed. As One pointed at, removing traps will get more important if telekinesis is nerfed. I approve. Murder counts: Did you read my argument against murder counts? (a reply to One)
The risk is that they are a crafter who gets murder counts, just like any other murderer. I don't really care if Lightshade is against punishing tinkerers. They only get punished if they deploy traps with no regard for public safety or intentionally to harm others. ie: Don't leave your trapped containers lying around in dungeons if you don't want repercussions for the results. Though I do feel that anyone springing trapped containers in a home the tinkerer is in the least friended to, should not get prompted to charge the tinkerer with murder.
