The Thread.

So this will be referenced as "The Thread" I'm sure by the end of it. This thread will contain swear words because were all adults and we are all passionate. If you're under 18 look away. If you don't like cussing, don't read this thread. If this gets reported and closed because of swear words use for emphasis not for insult, that would be embarrassing

I'm new here, 4 months maybe.

I have enough gold to do what I want, I have a large house, I have one small house and one workshop. One on each account. I don't need nor want anything bigger. Only will I upgrade if I fond a tower that I like or another similar home is a sick location.

I am not poor, nor homeless as so many of you try to label me as.

My continual argument is about player retention.

Pirul, Valadin, Gzus you are all short sighted and quite ignorant when it comes to seeing the big picture. You think the argument is about removing your hard earned pixels and giving them to new players without consequence.

My argument isn't about the mega rich owning everything, it's not about the IDOC crew or how the do business (although I do think the same drop time is retarded), my argument isn't about not being able to place a fortress. and it's not about every single person owning 15 homes.

My argument is that there are too many houses for the amount of active players and that played don't NEED more than 3 homes. We have players refreshing the houses of inactive players for literally years and almost no vets see a problem with this. Like it's their right to hold on to a house until time expires on this server. Sure, they earned the gold and farmed and wheeled and dealed to get that house. Then they fucking quit. It's been 3 months, 6 months, 12 months, 24 months in some cases and buddies religiously refresh these houses. Why? it serves no purpose.

I have repeatedly said that if ACTIVE 4 year/3year old players or players who continually donate to the server want and need to have 15 houses to fulfill their own measures of greed then so be it. That shouldn't be the case for everyone however. If you played here 4 years ago and left for 2 years, you should have no right to the homes you once had. You could give them to your friends who could give them back to you if you need your home, give all your assets, whatever.

If you think it's okay to hoard and hog valuable space by refreshing houses on the minute chance that a player might return, you're selfish and short sighted. The name of the game for ANY player run server is building and maintaining a population. What a better way to discourage a player by having them save up a tonne of money to buy a house in a location they did not get to choose, regardless of the "Towers are selling for deed+50k" argument. Maybe a guy doesn't want some shitbag tower in the swamp for deed+50k when there are towers in North Minoc mines that haven't had activity in them for years.

The community here is great, it's helpful, and yes @Gzus I let newbies live in my houses, help them with skills and give them small donations to keep them going. So fuck you for assuming I don't do that.

What the community here is, is stubborn as anything I've ever seen as far as a group of vets goes. A lot of the vets here like their cushy life and enjoy their playstyle. The thing is guys, if this server isn't growing, it's dying. There's been a massive influx in new joiners lately, myself included. Why the hell wouldn't we want them to stay? Why wouldn't we do every single thing we can so that we encourage their time here?

The hill most of you choose to die on is the housing hill, be it IDOC, be it housing limitations, and that's because it's the most expensive and profitable resource in the game. the 1%ers don't make their money farming as much as they do other things and they're downright fucking snobby when it comes to suggestions of changing things.

"Farm enough until you can afford the house you want"

Fuck you. I'm 34 years old with a family and a job where I spend weeks away at a time. I don't have the literal 10 years of farming to make the 8-10 million for a fortress (I'm using my life as an example of others and the largest most expensive home for dramatic effect, as I've stated, those huge ass houses aren't for me).

"Grandfathering accounts would have to happen"

Agreed. if you're active and have an account of older than say 365 days, for sure, you're in you've put your time in, you deserve everything you've amassed. If you're active and you donate X monthly to keep this server free, 100% you're in. If you're inactive and donate to keep this server free, we should thank you by allowing you to keep your stupid 5-10-15 homes.

Disagree if you're a new player under a year old. You have 3 accounts, buy your 3 fortresses and you're good, else, take one fort and 2 houses in prime locations. Deal with it. If you're account is inactive for over 365 days, fuck that, you don't deserve to have all your homes refreshed by friends. Guild houses or not, you've quit. Goodbye.


This is long and ranty, I'll save some arguments for the debate that we all know will occur. I just ask the you keep an open mind and see both sides of the argument.

@Pirul
@One
@Vandalin
@Gideon Jura
@Pill
@Merlin

@Whoeverthehellelse.

this thread will be glorious

Nothing you say or do will change anything. Telamon rules all and sees the current system as history perfected.

Nothing is set in stone. This server is constantly changing. @Chris works his arse off coding and doing other things constantly tweaking the system.

I, myself, have 5 houses currently. I have a Villa, a Log Cabin, a Sandstone and small tower next to each other. And a small. I just bought a Large Tower with my hard earned gold, so ill be giving the villa back to the person who gifted it to me. I also just helped PS purchase 2 vendor houses in Yew (since I am one of the 2 highest contributors to the price of the house, I will own one of them)

I disagree with someone having a house refreshed for years. If you're going to be gone a long time, sell the house, bank the gold, and have a huge bank balance to come back to so you can buy whatever you want when you get back. That being said, things happen. Sometimes, someone's computer will break down, or something. I don't think you should lose everything because you're willing to log on but are unable to.

I don't farm. I've never seen the inside of a dungeon. I have about 2m gold in the bank because of some sound business decisions, and from fishing.

I don't believe people should be limited to less than 15 houses, but I also think people shouldn't refresh houses for years.

There are still good places to put houses. Houses fall every day. I placed a stone workshop (66k deed price) and sold it for 1.7m. It was in a really good spot. I didn't have to camp or anything. The spot was just available.

Don't think Chris isn't changing everything about the server because he doesn't want to. Do you have any idea how long the staff To Do list is? This server will be around for years before we get to what is currently the bottom of the list, and shit gets added all the time. That being said, this isn't a custom server. This is a Renaissance server with a few changes here and there. The bigger the change, the farther we get from being a Renaissance server.

Kirby, I appreciate your post, however;

You hit a literally once in a lifetime lottery with that home. Between the placement and timing of the auction or else you'd still be fishing trying to pay back your villa so I don't think we're talking about the same kind of playstyle here.

You'd still be fishing for your lunch money if that didn't come around.

Farming, Fishing, BOD's whatever you do to earn money isn't of any consequence here as making money isn't hard and also not the point of this thread.

Truly classy @TreeHugger. I recant every bad thing I ever said about you. I underestimated the size of your heart and your love for this server. Accept my humble apology and forgive my narrow sited views. Your words have opened my eyes and I have seen the light.

Veterans, Millionaires, Property owners and pixel hoarders of UOR, hear my plea. We must find a way to give back to the community of UOR. We are a plague upon this server and we need to be punished. Gather up your pixels and trash barrel them. Let your bank checks float away in the wind. Drop your houses and kill your pink horses.

@TreeHugger if there is anything I can personally do to make your UOR experience better, do not hesitate to ask.

You've done enough pal. Thanks for the reply.

@Gzus the only reason I called you an idiot is due to your slight and insinuation in your previous post towards me.

TreeHugger are you really new here? You're sounding a hell of a lot like someone I know who hasn't been active for a while...

100% bud, just joined 4 months ago after quitting in 2000 after high school.

Don't know how I can prove that but yea, I'm new(ish)

I'm not sure you read my post. Talking about the Troll house was only one small part, yet that's all you responded to.

I'm also not really sure what your goal is with this thread.

Also, be careful because this thread is toeing the line to becoming trash talk which can't be in Renaissance Discussion.

Kirby, I picked the part I didn't agree with out of your post and commented on that. Don't feel as though I need to bring up things I agree with, right?

What I'm trying to do here is consolidate all the complaining into one thread.

And it's not talking trash, it's a passionate, informed discussion on housing and because of that things can get testy, hence the warning at the top.

Yes Kirby, this clearly is not a trash talk thread. There is no name calling nor slanderous comments that would suggest that. @TreeHugger only means to help the veterans of UOR see their evil ways and to reconcile the differences of our active forum community. Let the light of Treehugger guide you.

Since this is in Renaissance Discussion section, let's have a renaissance discussion.

@Kirby god bless your soul, I think your heart is in the right place. I don't know how many times I have seen you post how many homes you own, but I absolutely believe you use each and every one of them. I've even been stealthed inside your little small next to the ranger camp with you watching you move thing about. You remind me a lot of another player @Atraxi who's been missing it seems.

In any case, I ask you, justify the need for 15 houses.

I've thought about it for some time myself. There's some players, who will place 15 homes, and put each and every one of them to use. There's no question in my mind that @Jupiter doesn't have the best intentions for all the smalls he's placed around the villiage of PAWS. But they are, small modest homes, and regularly used by a guild, and have a tiny footprint on the map.

It seems like we run into problems when players have several large houses, as I think there's plenty of room here for our small population to each have 15 small houses without crowding eachother out. Not many players own several fortresses. The problem seems to be the tower to keep sized spots. The map has a lot of places where these can fit, and they are likely THE desirable home for most players, as a castle/fortress is probably better suited for an actual guild. I mean, the fortress has smaller subdivisioned rooms afterall, but how many times have you seen those used for their intended purpose? My guess is never.

In that case, what is the downside for a "followed slot" style house system with different sizes requiring different number of slots? Jupiter can have his 15 small houses, you can have your small to large 5 houses, but perhaps Mr shade made of light can't have his 15+ large plots that all sit entirely empty and aren't even for sale. Is that a bad thing?

Okay so there is one thing I hadn't considered: people sell houses. If we give every player a limited number of slots, and they fill it with houses they actually use, which, IS what we want here. We want all players to have all the houses that they have earned/paid-for AND use right, then where does that leave the housing "market" ? How are these players supposed to buy/sell houses? I think that's a good question.

Maybe some sort of system where a player can place more houses than they have available slots for, but are unable to refresh the new houses that don't fit into slots. This allows players to own a <to be determined> amount of houses that any player would want AND actually use, AND place additional houses when opportunity for profit presents itself, or as part of their normal housing business.

There's another problem. Suppose I am @Jakob , notoriously ill-dressed trammel-llama riding owner of enough homes to fill all my house slots that I could ever possibly use. What stops me stop placing an additional house to sell, and then simply deeding it and re-placing it to refresh it? Well, maybe some system where a player cannot place a house that would go over the follower slot amount if they have, in the past 7 (or whatever) days or so place a house that would cause them to go over the follower slot limit? This means I can own all the houses I personally would use, place another house, sell it before it goes idoc, and place another. Or heck, even multiple houses over the follower slot limit as long as I can sell them all. But the minute I re-deed one, I can't place anything for 7 days.


Naturally there would need to be a max-houses limit, I think 15 is what we are all comfortable with already anyway, to stop someone from just placing a house on every spot on the map and clogging it all up for a month. But I think if you're placing homes that aren't selling, and you're not using them, them you're simply hording homes, and we can all agree that's not the best situation to have I think.

Of course grandfather all the stuff. What's UO without grandfathering in those lucky enough to "be first".

What situation would arise where one player would need 15 large homes, and actually use them? I fail to see any reason for it, so please let me know what I am missing here.


Edit: I also wanted to add that I absolutely do not care at all really except for how this effects server population. You will not see me at an idoc, I live in the same house I always have (i just bought a second home recently though to be the new Papua Tailor), I don't sell houses, I don't but houses for deed + gold. I will buy a house from another player if and only if it's an amazing location and I could totally understand why someone would keep say, a house on a town guardline, near a bank, or whatnot. It's in my best interest that all the vets KEEP all the keeps, castles, and fortresses, because this means that middle-ground players will stay in med-lrg size homes without magical courtyards and lessened security.

While I feel some pangs of guilt for the relatively unused guild fortress I still own, I do have some specific inquiries pertaining to this gust of hot air.

Can you please list exactly which homes you know for certain have been refreshed by friends "for years"? Please keep the, most certainly vast, list limited to homes of 24x24 tiles or greater. Also include the amount of hours the owners have played in each year of this alleged refresh period. I'm sure in four months you have copious data to back up these claims.

I know I don't set foot in every spot of land in the game regularly but I do get out and about. I'm a serious wanderer at times and do just walk places because...ya know...I like UO. I see a lot of keeps and castles that are clearly occupied by new owners, since the last time I was in the area. This is easily evidenced by their decorations (named trophies are a good indicator) and just knowing that who used to live there doesn't play, or got a different home here.

You've been stealthed inside Kirby's Trapper Hut?! I never knew!

I honestly don't think he could be complaining much about keeps and castles. Most of those are owned by someone and AT LEAST decorated. I think the problem is there are vast plots of land suitable for houses in reasonable (but still terrible sossarian ghetto level peasant) locations that are entirely unused and have remained such for a long time. I regularly make a run of the whole map while I do my barding. I used to know the player who owned it, but I forgot the name (sure someone here remembers), but there's a literal TON of houses all named Humbolt County, basically totally empty. Not for sale, not used, all blocking giant plots of land. There's certainly more than 15 of them. I think russel in another thread somewhere mentioned the houses of mystery ownership that all seem to be labeled suspiciously after lightshade, something like 60, totally unused. I had one spot in my rune library marked for a place where I suspected C^V or whatever they call themselves now would place a keep or fortress, was packed with L shapes and other homes. I checked it now, nearly 3 years later, the exact same houses in the exact same spots, absolutely nothing new going on there. (they did move a keep over blocking the CY rune spot from me but fear not I marked the spot they moved the house over to as well, I'm no bozo).

I can see how it would be incredibly disheartening for new players to constantly be told "get gud I just placed 7 keeps at occlo bank yesterday, you just aren't looking hard enough". I also understand why people doing idocs and stuff would be annoyed about a change to this system, but I additionally cannot see a legitimate reason any 1 player would own 15 towers if some weren't for sale.

There have been entire previous conversations about how many homes have been refreshed and for how long by a number of people. You're in the know and read every forum so I know you'll recall at least a few.

Again you're taking this as I'm insinuating every single vet, which as I've stated, I am not. It's not just vets.

I've also said this is mainly for unused and inactive homes. And for the last time, this isn't just about keeps and forts. It's all houses in all locations.

I'm also quite sure for every tower or keep that you find recently decorated you could find at least one or two with either nothing in them or rarely used.

But hey Blaise, great work on nit picking the thread and not really contributing anything. We can just bicker away like always or you can try to be constructive either for or against my premise.

Valid rebuttal, as I have heard tell of some excessive C^V hoarding going on. I do tend to overlook the medium sized homes and/or not pay attention to the changes in them. I keep reading these threads and yet when I go out and about I can still drop villas with ease. I happened to stumble across a fine plot a week or so ago now.

I don't think people doing IDOCs would have a great deal of gripe about limitations to ownership as the plots they secure are almost always posted for sale shortly thereafter. It wouldn't be much problem at all to manage that.

Unfortunately, though I do support 1 home per account or other such restrictions as you have suggested, I'm skeptical of change having a positive impact on population or otherwise.

This was more directly responding to @snap dragon than the OP, in regards to the suggestions for limitation.

This is all futile. Telamon has already spoken his stance on this subject. It is his server his rules.