The Dexxer: Should we make some changes? (Long read inside)

This is something I could get behind

Perhaps just maybe an argument based on comparisons between "templates" is an uphill battle destined to fail.

I wonder what an approach based solely on the skills and their weapons/armor would look like.

Do not change hit chance macing needs a buff, and archery needs a buff

Correct.

Make it so, number one.

i read through the OP, scanned through pages 2-gazzillion and just posting some wizardly thoughts here at the end.

In my surmising of the primary issues at hand, it seems to me that a "solo" dexxer (except for a remarkable few mavricks) is not deemed capable of competing toe to toe with a mage pvp or pvm styles.

Instead of prescribing invasive surgery as the only suitable treatment, I would consider a path to try and pursuade and incentivise dexxers to travel in greater numbers. I think based on all the discussions here it can be concluded that 2+ dexers could drop most mages.

what if we tied a virtue or web stat to a dexxer's player prilofile. records would only be kept if dexxers joined an in game party and then you could publicly display your party stats (i.e. how many shadow or ancient wyrms you've killed) and perhaps a "party up vote" system so that people in your party can vote whether or not you were trustworthy and/or capable.

In my thoughts this info would be available on the player profile in game, or at least a link to it.

I know i would be more apt to run in a group with a dexxer if i saw he had a favorable reccomendation and a history of slaying high end beasts.

This isn't right in any way. The only "guaranteed" deal basically is a 100% toggled stun punch that hits more often than weapons do (wtf?) With 2 mages able to cast exp EB (or flamestrike to guarantee a death, yes scrolls = 100% cast).

A para with a spear = death? If you aren't using a valorite spear, then it will take AT THE VERY LEAST 4 to 5 HIGH ROLLED hits (IN A ROW!!!!) to kill someone (Assuming they are using that heal wand + heal pot + strength potted). And that is assuming it is 1v1, and they don't have a bandaid running and no heal spell casted. Does that seem realistic? Remember, that target has at least GM barbed leather on. Not realistic and very unlikely.


2 axers hitting and 1 shotting is insta death? This isn't about ganks. We are balancing on 1v1s, right? So again with a VALORITE AXE you can hit for 62 max. So, strength potted up, you have 120 HPs. You hit for 62. Am I going to stand there? Not greater heal? Not bandaid? Not heal pot? Not run? No wand? And then you have to hit again. ANOTHER HIT, ANOTHER PERFECT ROLL, WITH A VALORITE SPEAR. Then sure. If the person isn't doing any of the above. Or if they are AFK. Again, not realistic and very unlikely.

I am glad I could disprove all of the above in these "theoretical" situations.

http://www.uorenaissance.com/player/584149


Just the other day, I was using my fencer tank mage. I use golds bc 50k for a weapon to get ganked isn't worth while to me.

We had 3 they had 4. I missed 9 out of 13 swings. I didn't get off 1 para blow. Only thing I was useful doing was mage spells. We killed 1. It was even numbers. They ran away. My fencing was worthless.


I conclude we should raise hit chance.


What does that story prove? My swings were awful. I missed a lot. I did the same thing you did. I told a story. I have a picture of my fencer/mage. I use golds. I missed a lot. Fencing sucks as a tank mage. I have no public information shown and no pics or videos to back it up. Is it your word against mine? Am I right? Are you? Maybe I fought newbs. Maybe you fought AFK people. No one knows.

My point:
Both of our stories are useless and not at all a useful testimony. Glad I could prove my point.

80 HARD NON-MODIFIED DEX

145 stat points? Little less mana? Sooo are you going to go with 80 hit points with 60 strength or....?? (I think that's the formula) to have 85 mana. Sounds kind of garbage to me. But IDK apparently you use tank mages all the time and are a beast at it!! And think dexxers are A-OKAY! So you obviously would know better than 100% of the server what is good and what isn't.

I think @Iago was referring to you. If you can't understand how to get out of the mage sync, I don't know what to tell you.

I actually feel like tamed pets should do a flat 50% less to players. But that's a other thread I will tackle whenever dexxers are fixed.

Because 4x 30hp firebreath is fair.

And @Jupiter do you think it is honestly fair dexxers need to run in "pack of 2+" to compete in this game? In any form aka PvM or PvP? Because I think that is a load of BS, and I play mages lol. Wouldn't it be more ethical to just balance the dexxer out? In your opinion?

I speak from an "every day dexxer" view point when I speak. If you want to put noobie day 11 mage against the best dexxer in the server, say GO PVP!!!!! And balance off of that, I have no idea what to tell you.

People are Sooooo hard pressed to defend their stun mages. They are terrified of dexxers getting stronger. Man up, seriously. The out of balance nature makes people NOT EVEN WANT TO MAKE a dexxer, let alone play one.

If every person here who is saying "GIT GUD DEXXERS U CAN OWN MAGES!!!!!1111" Had to play a dexxer against decent mages, they would get smoked and they know it. Hence the "Please don't fix dexxers, I like to win." Dexxer cock block. It's kind of sad really.




When someone starts the server, what is the common advice for a new character who wants to hunt?

"Make a provo mage or a tamer. Nothing else is worth it"




When someone says, I want to pvp! What should I make?

"Make a stun mage or a tamer. Nothing else is worth it"

You asked for people's opinions and yet you rage when they are given? I personally do not believe hit chance needs to be changed. That is my opinion. This is my last post here have a good one and I hope you find the balance you want.

Thank you for considering my thoughts into the discussion so warmly. Short answer to your question: Your question is invalid. You're asking me to define a level of fairness when you have already predifined notion of equitable factors which we clearly disagree upon.

snarky answer: Yes, i think it's a fair point. See MMORPG definition

MMORPG definition per dictionary.com. Pay close attention to the last line "...interacts with a large number of other players."

1. massively multiplayer online role-playing game: any story-driven online video game in which a player, taking on the persona of a character in a virtual or fantasy world, interacts with a large number of other players

Final answer:
I'm a huge advocate of adding end game dexxer content and huge proponent for getting people out together. I'll take 50/50 swords tactics newbs any day over drastic changes unless said changes are based on factual evidence and not "it feels like" thesises with the precluded hypothesis being Dexxers Should = Mages should = Tamers

I raged? Where? I stated in bold...


80 HARD NON MODIFIED DEX

Would be the requirement. You now have less of an argument about how "OP" tank mages would be, because to get the "Super crazy over-powered hit chance" (That in reality, would simply make dexxers and tank mages balanced and on par with stun mages) your stats would have to be trash. Either hardly any mana at all, or be a glass cannon running around with 80 hit points. And now, you don't have a counter point and just want to say "I don't like it..I am taking my ball and going home."

Sounds good. Thanks for the opinions though? Glad we were able to verify the amount of dex needed so no "OP" templates are formed.

Well @Jupiter , I was told by the owner of the server "go test it on test center. Show me some relevant information and we can get started there".

He knew that test was not up to date, yet, he was attempting to get the fly out of the ointment. Regardless, I did as he asked. I proved that the 50% thing isn't truthful at all. Then, it was blown off, and invalidated for "several" reasons.

I was told to do it.... I did it.... Proved it.... Then told it didn't count.

See why I don't want to waste more time "proving" it until I am told it will be relevant? Again, opinions are fine and dandy. But, unlike others who have tried before me to get the dexxer class buffed, I don't get discouraged. When I am correct, or I can prove someone wrong, I will damn well do it. And I have, various times in this thread With FACTUAL evidence.

When I am given an "opinionated" answer / reason / scenario, I (In my own snarky way) do it in return. Usually in a better, more thought out way. People don't like this. They usually stop at this point.

Anyways, @Chris is vehemently refusing to reply to any messages I send to him via IRC, PM, or in this thread (Any one else notice this?) because he knows the dexxer is a minority (By his own doing with the server rules, mind you) and would much rather keep the plentiful and highly used stun mage (and players) happy instead of "HISTORY PERFECTING" a balance to a class that is sorely lacking.

But, back to your response Jupiter, I love the concept of MMOs. And I agree. But why does one class (dexxers) have to abide by the "multiple needed" and not all classes? That is an answer I would love to hear. Because, shouldn't balance be a huge component of "History Perfected" ??


BTW: I am in no way fighting with you Jupiter. I love your points. I just feel balance and equality should be WIDE spread to all classes. And I think in all honesty, you do too. I am just trying to convert you to my line of thinking and agreeing with me.


Chris, I like you bro. You do amazing things for this server. I have DONATED to the cause, that is how much I like and appreciate your work. I love the history perfected concept. But when you neglect various things that need "perfected" I can't help but wonder why (And how for that matter) you pick and choose what you want perfected.

if not already i think your fast approaching the extent of anyone's interest in this thread. any idea other than "change code so dexxers can 1v1 at same level of tamers" has been attacked.

I entered the convo with a sympathetic ear, but woah.

Also, Chris, as with the majority of us, has a long list of other to-do's. I don't know how he determines what get works on next, but I'm pretty sure any requests that are accusational in nature find their way to the bottom very quick.

Cheers and good luck with your crusade.

While I agree the post has gotten semi derailed (That tends to happen in long post, ya?), but it is filled with great information and ideas for our owner/admin. He can pick and choose whatever works for him.


Now with everything being brought up and attacked, I did post in the OP my ideology, my reasoning (with some pros/cons), and how improving the dexxer would be good server wide. I personally do my best to keep my posts punctional, easy to read, and full of the best information/opinions I can muster.

As far as pros/cons, some involved increase to weapon sales, better class versatility, and even making thieves more useful. I mean doesn't everyone wants thieves to be more fun and have more stealing targets?


Opinions are good. Debate is excellent. It brings together people you would never expect because you share ideas and opinions with them. It is healthy for the server to be made aware of things, even if you don't agree with them.


I mean look at this post itself! As of my posting it has 155 replies and 1700+ views. I think dexxers changes are important based on that small statistic alone. Sure, some are multiples of the same person, but the fact that in 8 short days it is one of the top replied posts in the history of the server forums (18th, and not locked) has got to speak for itself.

Haven't read all of this thread yet, but...

This makes a lot of sense -- why would someone with low dexterity be as fast at a physical activity like applying bandages?

Same logic should apply for hit/swing with higher dex, imo (not including buffs, so it would apply to actual dexxers not tank mages).

By the way, since this is suppose to be UOR accurate...


Why don't we have weapons with the following charges on them as our loot??

• Burning – Magic Arrow
• Wounding – Harm
• Daemon’s Breath – Fireball
• Thunder – Lightning
• Mages Bane – Mana Drain
• Ghoul’s Touch – Paralyze
• Evil – Curse

Those could totally help out the dexxer / archery class as well.

Amen to that Lox.

Let me close this out by saying that for anyone who liked Jupiter's idea to run in a pack of dexxers....I have a pair of red boots for you. Roll an orc! We despise tamers! We also despise most mages...we also don't like non orc dexxers.....non orc crafters....pretty much anyone non orc...but especially tamers.