Griefing

Not sure if this will help you understand a RPer, but essentially what they're doing is collaborative story telling and/or being their character, opposed to playing their character. It's quite fun if you're in to that sort of thing. I personally have spent years RPing, it was a blast. It can really add depth to a game. Each to their own though of course!

You're right that it can cause players to not join the shard, but most people understand the accepted use of the term griefing as intentionally ruining someone else's game time for no reason other than ruining their play time. So, regarding that, I 100% agree with it.

Edit: Removed unnecessary comment that could be taken as provocative / further throw the discussion in to fighting about who is right.
We could get back in to definitions, but if so I'll start linking dictionary definitions from both classical sources (Oxford) and modern sources (Dictionary.com)

Anyway! I dont think we'll ever see eye to eye regarding this term. Therefore its probably worth just focusing on the use of the term on UOR / Telamon's use of the term.
The no griefing talk is intended to prevent anti-social actions that aim to ruin the fun of our great community here. It's not intended to limit pk or thief playstyles.

Perhaps that could be clarified better or officially. However, we are predominantly left to our own devices as well as solving every day problems as a community, rather than whining to admin staff.

We should reserve the term for those situations and encourage others to do the same.

WTB European shard with Trammel that is true to AOS era or similar. That is when I last played paid (EA in the UK/EU, not OSI) 96-02.

Yeah, there isn't one without added "pay € for bling" and so not true to that era (and the multiple sclerosis brain damage that means I can no longer work as a programmer means I am not capable of running one myself in runUO).

Failing that I joined UOR because a friend recommended it as having friendly players. That is also why I joined [Project Sanctuary] after meeting @MikeK. I know UOR does not have Trammel but it seems rare for a red to rez and return loot. Why loot if you are going to return it? I guess it makes sense to some people to extort the player you just killed just coz the game lets you do it. To some people.

I was born in UO on Europa in Trammel. Some of us do remember the safety to gather, craft and vendor without being killed or stolen from with fondness - and we could still go to Felucca if we wanted to play that ruleset.

Yes, I know UOR does not have Trammel. I just find, in my experience of reds and bluePKs that common human decency is missing in many UOR players. Hence the sociopath quote in my sig - most of us grow out of sociopathy at the age we leave toddlerhood unless we have very harsh childhoods (which I did myself but let's not go there).

Perhaps I am just too old to play on UOR any more (50). I do my best to help people with gifts and by running three vendors (which some reds tell me they shop at after they kill me - once my cPTSD is triggered and I am afk). I am paying forward kindnesses shown to me by so many mamers of P'S and other people in UOR. Why kill someone that is doing something to help people (like stocking said vendors)? There are plenty of less painful places to kill toons.

Remember, toons in UOR have human beings playing them. Those human beings might have illnesses and disabilities. If you would not shoot them in town while they work (I live in the UK, remember) then do not kill their toon whilst they are crafting/working in UO.

Yeah yadda yadda TL;DR I am a trammie so you will no doubt ignore me.

It sounds like you've had a rough time in life, so have I. So have many. I don't ask for handouts though, nor do I expect that others should treat me differently. In fact, I prefer they don't and I don't attempt to play the victim, ever.

I'm not sure how you think that anything in your life has any validity in a game world. That's a really strange concept.

Your final point is the one that makes the least sense of all.

First: How could anyone know who is behind the character and their specific health concerns?
Second: Why would they care? You've lived in the real world for 50 years, surely you understand by now that we're all insignificant from the perspective of the majority of the world.
Third: I don't believe anyone that plays here goes around shooting anyone in the real world, if they did they're breaking the law in a horrific manner and will, or should, be in prison. A silly comparison.

Again, sorry your life has had some fairly crappy events and/or turns, but comparing any part of it to UO is ridiculous, as is expecting others to take it in to account.

UOR is packed with kind and helpful players, even murderers and thieves are controlled on the most part by decent folk, ever spoken to someone behind these players? I recommend it.
You need to understand that some people are playing the role of murderers and thieves, this is one of the few games out there that allows this and a large reason why it was so popular at and after launch, risk versus reward.

All in all I think your mentality is one of the victim, possibly you need to address that, either in game, out of game, or both. Accepting you're a victim will always result in you being a victim.

As for wishing UOR was a safer place, which you obviously do, this leads back to the idea that we need more Anti-PK brigades around the land.

Perhaps a player operated town watch, or a Britannian Royal Guard, do you think you could help with developing this in some way? I assume not in a PvP sense, but many things can be done to help such an operation. Keeping your men in the field requires logistics and supplies most of all. Could you possibly help in keeping them in supply of essential battle gear? A safe place to practice their war-fighting skills? I'm sure you and others could. As a result of players working together in such a way, you and others would find a growing number of people prepared to defend you when needed.

I would get involved in something like this, but I am one player, with a limited amount of funds and crafter characters from my short time on here. I also need practice in PvP skills, else, I'm just more fodder for the hardened soldiers to cut down.

.

in-freakin-deed

How is stealing someone's stuff and offering to sell it back to them griefing/blackmail? That's what this thread is about, and also exactly what a thief does. Offering someone's goods bsvk to them is actually a pretty courteous thing.

@O'Malley Haven't you heard? He invented the term! -.-

Op has lost. Lets move on.

Evil mages grief me all the time. Lich Lords too.

Edit: And when you all don't vote in my favor in my polls, you grief me.

When my kids fight over minecraft, they're absolutely griefing me.

Making playstation purchases without my consent is also griefing me.

So I say to the devs, ban lich lords and evil mages.

And please ban my kids.

The problem here, is how can you know someone else's intent? Maybe red pots don't have much value in game, so you'd think a thief is griefing you when he keeps stealing them, but maybe, just maybe, he needs those pots.

Lost what?

You're just laughable now. If you're referring to the back and forth regarding the meaning of the word griefing, read the whole thread, there are numerous people that agree with me and very, very few that agree with you or Brick.
As I said before, you clearly have nothing to add to the thread, so stop posting.

I agree, you can't tell what the intent is from one action, it's the pattern that shows the intent. I mentioned this on IRC the other day... regarding ghosting I think. As such, we are lucky enough to have detailed logs kept that show these patterns emerging, so any true griefing can be investigated.
It's the only way to really know for sure, else it's just an observed action that may or may not be done with the sole intent to ruin someone's game play. This logic has been applied in real world law as well.

I once stole a wand from someone - it was all laughs and that person wasn't pissed, but I actually had run out of ID wands, so, why would I pay for one when I can steal one? Definitely not griefing!

I don't expect them to know. I only expect, as I was brought up, common decency from other human beings. Don't assume that I am as able bodied as they are. Don't assume that I am okay with being griefed. Just common human decency.

Also, sociopath =/= psychopath. Many bosses, politicians and leaders are sociopaths without stepping over the line to become violent psychopaths. Sociopaths merely don't care about anoyone but themself (and their own fun, in this case). Psychopaths are the violent ones that shoot people.

I am not a victim and so cannot, by definition, have a victim mentality. I am a survivor. I am 50 and still alive.

Yes I have spoken to some decent reds. They are not the griefers that I am talking about - the ones that just display selfish disregard for others.

Never mind, I am leaving the thread and no longer watching this thread because reading it and taking part in it is making me ill - stress triggers my MS. This is a "looking after myself and my health" reaction and not a refusal to discuss. I will continue to treat people (and toons in game) as I would hope to be treated myself.

@Azerothian Well, I tried to be nice, I even sent you a pm trying to explain how I wasn't attacking you. In fact, I was attacking the words that you wrote.

*takes gloves off*

It seems you didn't actually read my post and focused on the words that you wanted to see.

I have made no assumptions, in fact all of what I said was based on what you said. No PK has ever made an assumption about you, in fact I don't think they would've even considered you, except in that you were a target in a game world where they play a murderer.
The world has never been the way you and most others would like it, this is a bad thing, no doubt. Unfortunately it just isn't the way it is, pretending otherwise is naive.
I also doubt you've ever been actually griefed. Trust me, you do NOT want an actual griefer on your scent.

You're quite correct. However it was you who was making the comparison between a shooter and a pk. No one else did that. At this point you are having a discussion with yourself about your own comment.

No one ever called you a victim, what was said was that you appear to have a victim mentality. It seems you're just using a catchphrase that you learned "I am a survivor". If that's the case, act like it instead of using your health as a reason others should treat you differently.
Consider my point about victim mentality the next time you attempt to use your health to further a point in a discussion. This is not something a survivor would do.

This is simply choosing to distance yourself from a discussion you actively participated in after someone called you out on what was inane ranting.

In the private conversation I began with you, you suggested we agree to disagree. Well, no. This is another tactic used in the same manner as the above, I'm not going to tolerate being misquoted and just let it go. Own your words as I do, if you can't, don't write them.

If you have an opinion about the over-use of the term 'griefing', please, write a post about it. Otherwise, you're adding very little to the discussion.

The term griefing should be decimated

@Killian I liked your post... then thought about it again.

I think it still has a very specific use, which it should be reserved for. Maybe 1/10th of the time!?

Haha, I feel less griefed now

I think I explained it pretty well, you're a pretty bad thief tho so I'm not surprised it went over your head, Jimmy is too, actually.

The only times I've seen either of you guys really do anything has been chasing people at Ocllo or hiding on the steps of a house while the owner is home only to get laughed at and owned.

I can understand how you don't see it as griefing because I don't think either of you have stolen more than maybe a couple thousand in gold. You're right, in that case, it isn't griefing. You're basically roleplaying.

You can put words into my mouth all you want, chump. I saw the word evolve in the best mmos of the time, all you have to contribute is "well umm, uhh, its not griefing, okay"?

You guys have a point though, neither of you have the capacity to grief anyone; why would you know what it means to do so?

Regardless of what UOs mechanics are, if you're a bad, you're not griefing anybody but yourself. I mean look at all these words trying to convince people to rewrite a definition of an established word. All you're doing is actin' like a sperg and showing yourself to be an easy mark in the future.

Edit - Haha, seeing you call people snowflakes in another thread. That's gold jerry.

In this gif who do you think you are? The player doing the kicking; or the player being kicked?



It was a trick question. You're actually the horse's ass. fyi hth~

Oh sorry my one month old account doesn't impress you Brick. You called me out, i asked why you thought offering back someone's goods was griefing and you called me a bad thief lol. Go flex your tough guy internet muscles on someone else.

10% less. ;-p