Thieves Guild and Murder Counts.

Anyone can steal from criminals, murderers and allies / enemies. No matter if you are in the thief guild or not.

The reason why there was a thief guild is because back on OSI, you had a chance to steal an item from an innocent (blue) completely unnoticed. Made it so that pure thieves with no murderous intents had a motivation for joining guild.

Thanks for clarifying that

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Theives should be able to take counts and go red and remain in the theif guild. The perma status after stealing should remain.

NPC'S should not be able to call guards except at afk nodes like banks. If a theif flags, players should have to call guards. All stealing should flag the theif to the person they stole from and perma gray them to everyone else(remain blue until attacked and can be guard wacked by anyone).

Currently town stealing is pointless. You auto get guard wacked most of the time. You can't trade or bank anything recently stolen. And when you're gray, you cannot use your bank.

My 2 cents

You can work around NPC calling guard with some cunning moves. They should be calling guard if you fail to steal unnoticed, as they notice the theft.

Main problems:

Being GM stealing is not worth it. You should be able to pickpocket a key without being noticed on a good roll. Sealing from stacks should not check weight but rather simply steal a number out of the stack adjusted by your stealing skill and roll.

Traded Items timer:

This is killing me. How many time did I have a perfect opportunity to steal something and forgot about the "recently traded items" cannot be stolen.... Even a pair of crappy boots.


Locked container in player backpacks:

Completely remove any risk. Unless someone get mad at you for using the trick and bring a PK character.



This is a recipe to turn honest thieves into dastardly PK's.


The rest seems trivial to me! I'm no PK and I actually like the challenge of being careful not taking any count on my thief.

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I support not being able to steal with murder counts. It adds a specific dimension to playing a thief.


However the mechanics are busted. You should be able to steal from greys/reds/monsters without going perma, you should also have a chance to steal and stay blue. There are far more guards around banks than prodo, stealing weights (single items and stacks) tend to fail too much and on stacks you steal far too little weight far too many times in a row. Items are intentionally made heavy so as not to be able to be stolen (ie statues and trees were 1 stone on prodo), however pks can just murder someone and take said items. Combine disarm fails with stealing fails and that needs improving, there's a lack of added content that almost every other class here has gotten, it'd be nice to have some thief themed deco items, clothing, quests and rewards, etc. There's murderer stat boards, stats for pvp, stats for fishing and pvm, stats for treasure hunting, and the only stat for stealing is guard whacks (fails) and of course the failure rate (guards can be called on you) even on 1 stone items is too high.

Compared to the above paragraph and all of the things that need to be fixed or can be improved, the murder count/thief system is trivial and actually helps keep the thieves and the pks from being lumped into the same playstyle.

I really wish the thief class and skill would be fixed and improved before silly things like bod expansions (a mini collector card game) donation shops, and cub stuff is added.

The thief was one of the most unique aspects of classic UO and was a lot of fun. A good thief was a top tier competitor and challenge should come from players and not busted mechanics and intentionally nerfed mechanics. Simple common sense and precautions were all that was needed to negate thieves. This thrown together (and bad) system here is pretty rough. While in fairness all free servers have neglected and ruined the thief class and stealing isn't 100% horrible here, it could be so much better. I've had faith for over 4 years that eventually @Chris will be persuaded to fix and improve the current system, if simply for the reason that to perfect the server for the time period that you'd want the stealing skill and thief class to be at it's best (along with everything else)

I know there are a lot of no talent thieves that leg hump, but when you consider the skill points used that hinder your template, maintaining targets, snooping (multilevel) packs on moving targets and timing to be on the next tile while someone is running and trying to kill you (usually 2+ trying to kill you) then it's a challenging class that can add to the variety and depth of pvp. I dunno, I feel like I'm beating a dead horse with this topic, yet I also feel like I'm 100% correct once people get over the hard bigotry against the class.


Thieves rule, pks drool.


*edit* Wall of stone to block npc sight and compensate for failures is a pretty crappy system too. I'm glad there is some method to at least attempt to counter auto kill by mechanics, but this is a petty weak adjustment to replace letting the skill actually succeed more.

Bump... Witnessed the staff thwarting a would be thief... A thief was taking liberty of an AFK person and then a staff char "Treasureman" popped in and gave the AFK person "young' status. That's kind of messed up in my book to allow something in game but then thwart people from playing how they want to play. I guess we are Trammel bound eventually at this rate. Whats next, give players young status in the middle of being PKed by a red?!? Its either that or some staff member used their position to protect one of their own chars.

@Treasureman @Chris @Samorite

Hello retro joke.

I did not realize that players can be put back into young status... in that case it may be just be bad timing on the thieves part. He was hidden though I would think you guys could have see them. It was definitely a GM character that popped in and then exited in the same grandiose way ;-) Not really a inconvenience for him more of a disappointment since he did spend a good amount of time shooing the NPCs out of the room. If I had known young status was something you could get back into then I probably wouldn't have posted, though it did give me a good excuse to actually create a forum count since I have been playing UO on and off since 97 and on this shard for a while. ;-)

If you're really a thief, you're not suppose to even exist, let alone be some mad man running around slicing people's throats.

Thieves should be able to steal from anyone and be reds if desired.
Thieves Guild members shouldn't be able to be reds, that should be reserved for an assassin's guild, and they should have to be red.

It would be cool if assassins could somehow use lethal poison, and if their disguise kits made them show up as blues.
It would be even cooler if thieves got some bonus perk in the exchange too, maybe some old dnd throwbacks, like boots/cloaks of stealth/hiding, or gloves of lockpicking. Maybe even like a thief BOD, steal x amount of this, Thief BOD rewards would be effing sweet.

Assassin contracts would also be sweet. Manhunts style events, Poison the Duke's food. Then frame the Duke's cook and kill him and his cousin for good measure.