I'm a 100% Trammie. Yea, I get it, I'm the sheep that all the grizzled Felucca vets that have been playing free shards for the last 6 years get to prey on. The risk of getting PKed or having something valuable stolen does add a morbid type of fun for players like me. And even when it's not fun, it's at least fair. I had the ability to defend myself. There were obvious countermeasures I could have used to avoid or escape the situation. That morbid fun does not carry over to people using Z-axis Razor exploits to purple pot me inside my house. Or people meteor swarming me while I'm AFK. Or trade scams. I like 'Fair' Felucca. I dislike 'Grief' Felucca. UO:R seems to have a similar viewpoint, and that's a big part of what has kept me here. I don't have the OSI UO experience, but it sounds like pet gating would be used for one thing: when a tamer gets murdered, PKs will gate their dragons off to wherever to further humiliate or annoy their victims. As someone that's only going to be on the receiving end of that, no thanks. Corruption does raise a good point about people perhaps 'stealing' good stat dragons for themselves, but seeing how it took 4 pages to get to that point, I think it's safe to say that's not what people are going to use it for.
So you mean, when a tamer dies, he should have no risk of losing his weapon? Which in a way, is already blessed to begin with? Griefing is things like res killing at a shrine etc. It is NOT killing a tamer and taking away his item, which incidentally, he can get back in a variety of ways. Also, its not like this is a new thing. This is how it was in UO:R, and TBH it wasn't a problem at all.
As someone who has done a great deal of PKing to someone who (I'm fairly sure) hasn't, let me provide you with some insight with regard to the motive of an average PK: We do not PK for loot. In fact, let's explore the argument that you are making here from the PK's perspective. It begins after I have PKed you and before I have left. I now have the option to: A) Loot you If I loot you, then I have performed an understandable act driven by greed. B) Not loot you If I do NOT loot you, then I have gained nothing but you have lost time. At this point your argument dicatates that I have griefed you and that my actions are driven by malice. As you can see, the "material argument" simply does not apply to this world. In the context of UO, there exists an invisible currency called "interaction." It is fun to interact with other people and with the world. The term "Griefing" has truely lost its meaning on these forums. Its usage has become out-of-control. The word has become shorthand for "doing things I don't like." All you really have is the facade of a moral high-ground from upon which you posture with sophistic discourse. This footing, however, is but a wishful illusion. (suck it, datamer!) In reality, most of the players you consider to be "Griefers" have three things in common: 1) They like the interaction that PvP provides 2) They are experiencing a shortage of consensual PvP 3) They have a healthy and objective view of the psychological and social ramifications of their interactions in this video game.
1) you would die almost immediately. 2) all follow me if you'd like to have a real discussion about this mechanic, maybe you could put some effort into thinking out your arguments rather than just crapping out something you think the hordes will blindly accept as truth. enough sophism, dude. be real.
sorry if that came off dick-ish.. i'm just sick of all the intellectually-lazy arguments on this subject.
The only way you get pet gated is if you are dead, and your not spamming all follow me, or you are just plain afk out of GZ. This thing you are thinking of where someone goes to a champ spawn and pet gates people doesn't happen. Hell, if it makes you feel better I would even , that in order for a pet to be gated out, the player either has to be criminal or red, or the gatee has to have flagged on the player. There, your non-problem is solved. I'm not sure where your going with the all 'we came from other server and it didn't work there'. Its one of those time there are different standards because each mechanic is its own thing. You are applying a blanket straw man that really has nothing to do with the specific mechanic we are talking about. Once again, the only argument for not having it is that tamers might get pet gated. It almost sounds like if you don't want to risk your shit maybe you should play AOS or Trammel.
This last patch just turned things completely on it's head. If I've got 3 bonding slots, you can't take my 'weapons' away now, no matter what. If I don't have the slots, you can just kill them as before. Maybe what should happen is stricter skill loss penalties for bonded pets when they get rezzed? I think it's 10% now. Perhaps 20% or 25%? [Serious discussion] Why would you die immediately? You're not committing a criminal act and would remain blue. It's a mess at those things. There are often 40+ dragons/mares on Harry in its final form all bunched up with text spam everywhere. Someone could easily get in the middle of them and drop a gate or two - maybe not even be detected until later when people check their logs.
It is currently 2.5%, if I recall correctly. Its hardly noticeable -- and ask anyone who's run a champ with me, my drags die a lot. A LOT.
Also, if you have never played OSI, or a server that has pet gating, realize that the pet has to MOVE onto the gate and stand on it for 3-4 seconds before it goes through. So you can't just open gates under pets or in there walking path and jack them, its more involved than that. If you have control over your pet at all, it cannot be gated. I think that is at the root of some of the arguments coming from Gideon here. Maybe the playerbase in general does not understand how pet gating works. its not 2 seconds and they open a gate and poof the pet is gone. It has to be a concentrated effort, which typically involves attacking the pet and luring it, which nullifies a lot of argument that people will do it just to grief during champ spawns etc. it just does not work like that.,
Exactly. You cant even lose them when its all said and done, So then why not only have the era accurate, while also introducing the player interaction element that pet gating so favors? If your pet is gated you are then implored to either negotiate for a ransom, or farm or quest or whatever you need to do to have the pet summon available to you. It is just another factor for driving player interaction, at the slightest 'expense' (to me its a positive improvement from both sides of the coin) of players who typically have the LEAST risk v reward play style. And to be fair, I am not a PKer, I will not gate your pet just because, I do not, as a rule, even attack players without a reason. I am a straight up, colorblind pvper, who would like to gate your pet away if your being a total doucher. I am just a guy who sees that the sandbox drives the story. More sand, more story.
So where do the summon balls come from? How about the gold to buy them? Does the player base not have to PLAY to procure these things? even if the interaction is generated away from the actual scene of the pet gate, everything in UO has ripple effects. As has been said before, your argument really amounts to; if it doesn't fit what you want, it is 'griefing' or bad in some way. 'Bad' things happen in UO. That's the best thing about it.
Another thing from my end. I can see both viewpoints. Both sides have valid points, I just feel visceral and more basic type mechanics like this make the gameplay better. I totally see why people who largely play tamers don't want it. If it never happens, I'm not mad. I am arguing FOR pet gating, rather than AGAINST not having it.
Well, he was citing me saying it... on page 1 The scenario in which someone PKs you and gates off your dragons is in no way different from them PKing you and sticking around to let monsters and/or their EVs kill your dragons. It happened before and it will happen in the future. In both cases, your pet is taking stat loss. The only difference is in a reality with pet gating, you just need to use a summoning ball to get them back (rather than fetching their ghosts minutes or hours later). The added "grief" that pet gating adds is the ability to sneak somewhere and gate a pet away via the element of surprise. Your gain here is a 2.5% skill loss from the pet victim, at worst. (summoning ball). Of course, gating away someone's dragons is probably a fairly risky endeavor. But I see it as a valid thief-type thing to do. I'm not too into thieving, but it's a profession with an equilibrium of zero's, punctuated by a few big steals here and there. I can certainly see a thief trying to make a score of one of the million-dollar dragons on this shard. All this said, I can tell you right now why this WON'T get implemented, and everyone's arguments here are pointless. This is because griefers would indeed gate away new players' pets, and those new players would ping/page Chris asking why their dragon or mare or grizzly disappeared after they went to the bathroom for a minute. And I fully agree that this change does not provide enough benefit to offset the amount of time suck that would entail. But absent that obstacle, I think it would add some nice gameplay possibilities to the shard.
