Improving PVP presence on UO:R: Faction Ideas

Hail citizens,

So, it's clear to all that PVP on UO:R isn't of the highest quality - most of it resides at IDOC houses and the odd zerg red squad beating down a lonesome tamer at Shame or Ice dungeon.

I have personally been playing this shard on and off since 2014 (I'm from UK), with my longest run being about a year in that time. Lately, pvp in the form of group fights on the field isn't at the level it should be. Therefore, I'd like to propose we try and lift the pvp scene at its most barren - factions. Currently factions is dead, which is evident given the fact that on Monday me and my guild [SiS] comprising about 5-6 players so far managed to steal town sigils from both CoM and Minax bases without any interruption or resistance, meaning we in SL now have full control of the towns at least until next week.

BLESSED FACTION RUNEBOOKS:

It's evident that a lot of pvm/pve players have the blessed runebooks, mostly in the form of afk bank sitters/tamers. However, one thing that I and probably many others feel that deters players from actually participating in the risk vs reward part of UO is the fact that their runebooks can be looted if not blessed. Many players probably come here by themselves, end up losing a full runebook full of spots and then think f it, I'm done. Moreover, the players very likely baulk at the cost of such a treasured item that they feel they wouldn't even be able to even obtain one. Factions would be a gateway for many PVPers and even people training up to find their feet on this server, and I am certain that this would be a catalyst to providing more pvp on a shard that frankly is 95% pvm - that, for me, is irrefutable.

BRINGING BACK A CURRENCY FROM THE GRAVE - SILVER

Assuming any of what I am suggesting gets noticed by the devs, it's obvious that silver has no bearing on the economy of UO:R. Think about it, we have copper, gold, platinum but the value of silver is zero - owing to a pvp system that is, for now, dormant. That could change if players were incentivised in acquiring silver. A silver reward system, where let's say if 5000-10000 silver or whatever the amount was could be used to purchase a blessed faction runebook, much like weapons. While we're at it, how about make it so that barbed leather/valorite chainmail etc could be blessed at the expense of a chunk of silver? Not only would this provide a solid gold sink, it would also encourage players to pvp with peace of mind that they won't lose their gear. Of course, a system could be put in place where if they were to attack a non faction member the items would perish, so it would only be of benefit in factions.

REDUCE SIGIL RESET TIMERS

So, we've established that factions are currently dormant. Why, then, should it take 7 days for the sigil timers to reset when this will only discourage pvp further in between. May I suggest that this figure is significantly lowered, perhaps to 36-48 hours? I've been speaking at length to other guilds who agree that the cooldown should be lowered to encourage fights in between rather than just raiding an empty base. I know whoever is reading this and wants to get into pvp/factions will either fully agree or reluctantly agree, but it's painfully obvious what needs to change.


To conclude, I would like to collaborate with the GM's of the major pvp guilds on here such as Bow, MiD etc to share ideas and get common ground, be a voice of the pvp side of the server, and succeed in obtaining balance between pvp and pvm on a great shard like UO:R. Right now, sadly, it is largely a pvm shard... but I think we can do something about this very quickly.

I would appreciate any thoughts/feedback on the ideas, perhaps some added suggestions to supplement this thread, and to get the attention of the devs.


Thank you for reading/commenting!

I have suggested before giving pvpers alternative ways to get the plat items like blessed runebooks. faction blessing would solve it I suppose. I only have one blessed runebook and it took me months of forcing myself to farm to pay it off, no fun ><

I think your post is pretty spot on, the only thing I would add is cap faction character's follower limit to 2. Let stun tamers be stun tamers if they want in my opinion, it's hard to abuse on this server because you have to sacrifice so many skill points if you want anatomy in the template. It's when you see 10 dragons at a faction base that people tend to say fuck it this isn't fun.

Also move CoM base to Moonglow, Magincia has a lot of problems.

I really hope factions pop off again, I know I would log in a lot more.

@fefe

Know what you mean about the blessed runebooks... it took me ages to get the platinum for one, i got lucky when i realised i had high end 7th anni items like lanterns etc which is how i got mine otherwise like yourself it requires farming for months. Primarily pvp focused players will not enjoy it.

I don't mind magincia having CoM but also wouldn't mind it being at Moonglow - it's a more popular city and thus will attract more people.

Also 100% with you on the pet slots. Don't wanna see dragons in a base either. That will definitely discourage pvp.

ANYTHING that is void of tamers and the players that PVP with tamers is going to be the most popular activity on this server.
FWIW I whole heartedly support this, I’ve supported every idea every player has had in regards to faction changes.

Alas.

It's a shame really that players have this mentality. Like, it's a game are you that scared of dying that you need to hide behind your all kill macro? 95% of people res you after killing you on here anyway... Obviously factions would be different but you'll have team mates to do that for you normally.

On defiance (EU shard) which I played regularly over a decade ago they nerfed pet damage by more than 50% to discourage people to use pets during PvP. Luckily most of the server was PvP focused and the minority pvm so there wasn't a lot of uproar

As a 20+ year player, with three 20+ year active accounts on OSI, my humble opinion regarding pvp on this server comes from a somewhat different perspective. In my opinion, Faction participation and silver are not the answer. I believe we learned that lesson on OSI when factions ended and gave birth to VvV (Vice vs Virtue). Don't get me wrong, I am not against factions but the lack of motivation to pvp on this server is not Faction related nor will it be fixed by silver or by available items purchased with silver. If this were true then plat would have done the trick already since the majority of the plat on this server is obtained and owned by the PK guilds who currently raid or control the Champ spawns. As you may have noticed, I said PK guilds because that is a more accurate characterization of what we have here on UO:R. There is a big difference between PKing and PvPing in UO. If there were actually PvP guilds on this server they would be running & battling each other day and night through Bucs Den or the Yew gate area for bragging rights and inspiring others to join in like they have done since the game began. They would not simply exist to troll through dungeons 3 or 4 deep killing & rez whacking defenseless players and/or spite killing pets for no profit. What passes for PvP on UO:R is disgraceful... But I digress.The problem with pvp motivation on this server is the lack of "variety & versatility" that brought pvp to it's absolute peak in AOS. On this server we have stun mages & Tank mages who paralyze their targets while they dump a combo on them. For the most part, that's pretty much it unless you want to get really creative and toss an explo pot in the mix. In contrast we have little to no warrior class pvp participation, no "predictable" or "executable" primary or secondary pvp abilities and a ton of useless weapons and items that serve no purpose. For example, we have :

1) war forks that do not disarm/bleed attack
2) swords that do not armor ignore
3) butcher knives that do not disarm/infect poison
4) cleavers that do not infect/bleed attack
5) bows that do not mortal strike
6) crossbows that do not dismount
7) No bolas or anything else that dismounts
8) Archers unable to PvP at all (no stealth archer dismounting, moving shot etc.)
9) Swordsman/LJ warrior class characters unable to effectively compete at all (no paralyze blow)
10) Fencers w/o Magery unable to compete and only semi-viable w/magery for paralyze blow

And the list goes on and on.

I am by no means suggesting that we go as far as OSI did with introducing new player classes or artifacts. I am simply suggesting that by adding the versatility of predictable & executable primary/secondary abilities for both mages and dexxers/archers etc. along with the ton of Renaissance Era existing weapons you can actually use to pvp with would ignite pvp on this shard IMMEDIATELY and motivate players to PvP like nothing players on this shard have seen before! The things I am suggesting would not require any new items or anything that would adversely effect the economy whatsoever. I am simply suggesting we use the Renaissance based weapons & gear that we already have along with the actual abilities to PvP with those existing items so that everybody doesn't need a Tank Mage/Stun Mage or even a Mage period to PvP.

I like the idea of making silver valuable... but to the other point made here: blessed runebooks SHOULD be difficult to attain.

Should how though? I don't believe it's era accurate? That would be the only reason to say it should imo.

Basically, not everyone has the time or commitment to churn out 1.5 mil. Some players just get enough in to PvP, say 100-300k and they don't want to pvm loads to do the thing they enjoy. Therefore, faction blessed runebooks shouldn't be a problem because it would only be able to be used on a faction char, and people will either be enticed to play in factions or they just won't bother at all. That is the point of it - to encourage PvP and not having to pvm for months to obtain one.

Ok then, faction blessed runes.
That’s a compromise and you can get them as you go then.

One can survive perfectly fine without a blessed runebook is my point. I did for well over a year. Having anything blessed shouldn't be a quick and easy thing.

This narrative still assumes that the lack of Faction bless items has anything to do with the desired result of increasing PvP presence on UO:R. Does anybody wonder why pvp on this shard requires some sort of Mage template in order to actually compete or even to effectively participate? Do you find it odd that Swordsmen, Archers, Macers & Non-Mage Fencers have no chance of effectively pvping on UO:R? Has anyone ever wondered or considered why pvp on UO:R is this way or what it would require to fix it?

Yes.
We’ve done that.

No, the narrative assumes this is not an AoS server with AoS mechanics, because it isn't...

There are plenty of viable dexxer templates for smaller scale pvp fights if that is what you want to play. You can often two shot people with axes, you get 4 second stuns from para blows, you can keep your katanas and war forks etc DPed for as long as you want. Throw in purps for more damage. What more do you need man?
The fact is large scale faction fights are about the coordination between you and your group, which makes dexxers less relevant in these fights. That is the way it was on OSI when the population was at or near its peek, so you can't tell me that not having spec attacks or the fact that scribe mages are the best template for large group fights are the culprit for not having a big faction scene here.

Dexxers can certainly pvp imo. Like fefe says, throw in a purple pot when you've paralysed your opponent or done some crazy damage with a runic axe and dp weapons. Dexxers are fine but I do think it would be cool if they were more interactive, I'd even say dexxers are overpowered in the sense that you literally just have to attack someone by pressing a button and then just standing next to them. It requires no skill - if they made it similar to how it is on AoS with special abilities you need to click to execute then by all means that would be a positive change.

I think it's madness to suggest you cannot compete on a dexxer.

This is really simple. Without being able to stun or paralyze your target you are going to have to chase it. Swords weapons do not have the ability to stun or paralyze so unless your target is going to stand there not hitting back while not healing and wait for that second swing of the axe, you are going to have to do something different to kill it. The same is true with archery weapons and macing weapons. Since there are no dismounting options either, you are guaranteed to “easily” lose to the fencer tank mage or the stun mage. They will kill you easily within that 4 sec stun time with no chasing required. Primary & secondary abilities fixed & ignited PvP on OSI. That’s why so many players could be seen battling constantly in Bucs & Yew on a regular basis. AOS abilities fixed PvP in Renaissance. I see NO pvping going on in Yew or Bucs here. I also challenge you to take your PvP dexxer argument to any PvP forum discussion and see how you fare. I do, however agree that we need way more PvP presence on the server. That would be great! But under the current circumstances I don’t see it happening.

In your very first sentence you remark about what you can do after paralyzing your opponent. The problem is, without being a tank mage with a fencing weapon or a stun mage you can’t paralyze your opponent. Again I challenge you to ask that question or present that argument on any legit PvP forum discussion and see what the vets say.

I can't tell if you are trolling or not.

....

You tried my dude.
We’ve all tried at some point.
Then we slink back to acceptance that this place is, exactly what it is and we continue to play here because it’s the truest representation of a game we all hold close to our teenage hearts.
Or we rage quit.
There is no middle ground.

Here are my thoughts as an observer and part time OSI faction townie way back when.

Combine OC with Factions

This one is a bit more of a long shot both because of the depth of changes required and it sort of aligns with the current OSI vice vs virtue system (anything current OSI can give people the creeps here). Essentially this will reduce the spread of PvP characters across 6 "teams" and 2 rule sets. OC has a problem with blue healers. Factions has a problem with lack of full teams. Combining the two rule sets and reducing the teams down to two helps address both issues. Even rolling O/C into the current faction teams would be of some improvement. Some of this appears to be found in current OSI as part of VvV.

Adjust the cap on the maximum difference in numbers between sides

This can be done with or without the above, but from my observations the spread starts off okay, then someone either gets greedy or is feeling like they're being outplayed so they team up with another faction. That then results in the other two factions scrambling to play catch up and combining down into two active faction sides. Eventually one gains the upper hand, continues to grow until it's in control completely and everyone gets bored and says eff it I'm out. If you force the sides to be in some level of balance it helps avoid any one side becoming completely overpowering and keeps it interesting. The default caps are 3x the size of the smallest faction but only if the numbers are over 200. Obviously that's number is not practical with the current server population so probably something more along the lines of 10-20 before the cap hits and 1.5x the size of the smallest faction.

Addendum to the cap - one faction per IP

To remove a potential abuse vector of people parking unused alts into a faction to game the cap system, only one faction can be joined from an IP. You can have multiple characters in that faction, but you can't have alts in opposing factions.

Implement the city tax system

This would need a decent amount of play testing and tweaks to ensure it's not abused, but would definitely give a financial incentive for people to get involved in factions. Don't like that your favorite town has a high tax? Join an opposing faction to try and kick them out and fix it. Like that the controlling faction keeps prices low? Join that faction to protect it. Without the above change this has a high probability of being taken advantage of so off the bat a cap on the max tax rate based on the number of towns a faction controls should be in place (going down to 0 if they control all towns).

Tweak the faction crafting system

There were some grumblings in the past about the way faction crafted items could essentially allow someone to run around with a fully blessed valorite weapon in the field to farm/pk 3 weeks at a time. While obviously not everyone is going to have the scratch to keep that up for extended periods of time, it can lead to some undue frustration (and obviously not an intended use of the system). There's a few ways this could be tweaked but the one that seems like the best fit is only flag faction blessed items as truly blessed if they've received "lawful" faction damage and have not healed to full since the lawful damage was received.

Another change to the faction crafting system would be to only allow for iron/leather equipment to be crafted but increasing modifiers for the weapon/armor can be purchased at crafting time based on the amount of silver used. These modifiers (aside from exceptional) would disappear from the item after the three week window expires. This would serve to increase the value of silver as better equipment can be acquired purely through that currency rather than relying on other systems/gold.

Lastly, OSI added faction stronghold runes and shrine gems as consumable items later on. Perhaps these could be craftable items instead of straight purchase (faction scribe + silver). For increased silver cost the gems could be for specific shrines and the runes could be marked and blessed (but still consumable, think combined recall scroll and rune all in one). The latter is somewhat of a hybrid between the faction item and the suggestion by Earsnot for blessed individual runes.


I'm sure I have more thoughts, but I'm tired and have to work
Edit to complete the thought around runes/shrine gems