Capture the Flag (CTF) - Randomized/ProTeam Solution

In order to avoid detracting from the most awesome patch update threads, I have created this to further discuss the pros/cons behind both truly randomized teams and the ability for groups to pick their teams and join with their best picks

Pick your own teams Pros/Cons: (please add more if you feel I've left any out)
Pros:
You would be able to determine who is truly the best of the best if you allow buddies/friends/mates to choose to be on their own teams.

Cons:
We will likely see routine dominance by a select few. (a valid assumption with precedence in almost all sporting/competitive events).
If you wanted to make 'fair' teams you'd basically have to ask somebody to play with the weak team creating socially awkward situations which MOST people tend to avoid
If a team finds an 'exploit'/'strategy' it will be unlikely that they will disclose it or tell others about this strategy until they feel they have sufficiently milked it


Randomized Teams
Pros:
Each match will be guaranteed to be different
If somebody finds an exploit/strategy it is less likely they will try to keep it secret
Making fair teams will be automated and will remove the 'socially' awkward part of requiring somebody to 'choose' to play on the losers team

Cons:
We won't be able to see who is the best of the best
You won't be able to play with your besties in every single match
Would require more development time from Telamon


Mixture of Randomized and "Best of" matches
Pros:
Could address both issues above

Cons:
Would require more development time from Telamon

FYI, before Blaise can troll this

I appreciate Blaises argument that he feels playing in teams with voice chat is the end-all be-al of all Online automated contests.

However, I address his argument by first pointing out his primary argument for CTF events all along as been (and I am summarizing)

Automated CTF = MORE SHARD ACTIVITY (or in other equations) - Automated CTF = MOAR POPULATION

As this has been the primary argument for CTF all along, and it is clear that non-randomized teams environment will inevitably form cliques in CTF, we should at least consider a randomized solution of some sort.

Without this I guarantee that one of the following two situations will occur - neither of which is favorable:

1. New players will be deterred from joining CTF (we've seen this in Factions), and the 'big team on the totem' will say it's because people don't stick it out and learn to make a team

2. If people want to make fair teams it will make socially awkward situations each time as somebody has to 'choose' to be on the 'perceived' losing team


Factions is something where cliques and teams belong. An Automated CTF event should be much more randomized in order to allow each experience to be the best possible experience for both OLD and NEW contestants.

I have seen what happens on every single other shard that has had CTF's without randomized teams and it is a complete mistake.

Randomize the teams or have zero rewards for playing if the teams are not going to be randomized.

The beauty of CTF is that it is a no-loss situation. You're just there to have some fun, perhaps meet some folks that you work well with along the way. If the next match you were then paired with those you don't work well with, that would take away from the team building you were just experiencing and you had no choice in the matter.

I voted for team selection only but wouldn't care if occasionally it was just a random mess of people wherein the winning team is going to be the group of players who had the most friends signing up and thus the greater chances of a larger coordinated effort on a single team.

None of the options will stop me from playing.

I like CTF a lot. Its tight spaces and corners benefit a dexxer which i tend to play for pvp for lack of mage skills, and generally just liking the dexxer play style. Which allows a lot of different char types and skill levels a chance to succeed.
--I do think for automated events purely random teams always would be a good idea to force people to interact with others, maybe a 1min pause once your team enters the room, to pull bars and plan a little before the game actually starts. Which could do a lot of things, teach newer players how to play, pvp tactics, and general skill sets playing with others.
--Dominate teams force people to not want to come back. I know some people would, like me or Blaise even if i got dominated id still go back and play again just for the fun, but many people wont.
-- There could always be a best of the best tourny or something like pick your on team and enter type of deal like a 1v1 tournament.

Just my 2 cents, I think purely random teams would help promote getting people into playing it more. As for making vets, or people who only like to play together if you bring enough friend, there will always be a chance to get to play with someone.

Lutz, do yourself a favor and dial up that Intelligence to about 45 and sacrifice either some Str or Dex to make it happen. Once I looked up your character (after making that axe for you), I spread the word to my team (in voice) that you were Mind Blast Bait. Which is why, even though you got 14 kills, everyone was hitting you with MB that last match.

See you next round, GG everyone and GET A MIC AND GET IN VOICE. I don't care who's on my team as long as they know what matters. Flag CAPTURES. Not Flag Defense, Not Kills, not living the longest.

Capture

The

Flag.

I m up for randomized team ...
But why not doing some sort of ctf contest with teams, like each sunday.
I played on DFI server and each Sunday we had alot of event.

See you!

I voted random teams! Even in the first 2 rounds I have played, I found myself looking over the names list of the teams and trying to put myself with those I know rock at pvp. I'm only going to get better at cherry picking teams given more exposure to everyone's level of skill. Its my nature ( and i would suggest human nature) to do this. Randomized would make this a CTF game, not a cherry pick known winners game.

Random no matter what.

Maybe 95% of the time do Randomized but for those heavily coordinated CTF teams/guilds hold a ProTeam round once a week or something

I've said for a while the best setup would be a buy-in system where players could pool gold to start a match whenever they were able. This would be a great gold sink and way for people to get team practice in whenever they can afford it. In such a time, that would make sense to have mostly random team CTFs with weekly scheduled team CTF.

A pain point I can see though is teams not having all their members on Team Day, because of RL. It's definitely a tricky system to balance for everyone but I'd had to only get to play with my team %5 of the time.

if the teams are randomized then it will be kind of hard to coordinate voice chat.

one solution is to give teams 60 seconds once they are in CTF before the match begins, as Lutz suggested, and to issue each member of each team a gump with a link that opens their mumble client and connects to the UOR mumble server and enrolls them in the proper channel. automated voip coordination!

http://wiki.mumble.info/wiki/Mumble_URL#Channels

That's a hot idea...if we convert the shard's ventrillo service to Mumble.

I think the voters have really spoken.

I believe Telamon wanted CTF to be a relatively casual way to experience pvp and break into the pvp scene. It's not meant to feel exclusive and stacked teams will make people feel that way in my opinion. Random teams plus incognito'd names would really help people that don't have the time/connections to join stacked teams take part in this as I believe Telamon intends. Someone else mentioned that it would be neat if the number of teams (2 or 4) was chosen automatically based on how many people sign up, and I support that idea as well.


It's also worth mentioning that from the times I've been to the new CTF it looked like the stacked teams just ran a train on the non premade teams and farmed them for flag caps. Which they are then able turn into platinum. It's a slippery slope and it concerns me a bit. I'm not saying that the small amount of platinum being handed out is going to ruin the economy, but I don't think pvp should be a cash grab. Looking at it as a whole, I asked myself what's being rewarded here: joining a stacked team and having access to an unrealistic arsenal. It's 3-4 people running past uncoordinated newbies for their flag, and being rewarded money by the system for it.

It's going to feel like a serious circle jerk and fast.

And I say this as the guy with the utmost resources and connections to dominate this event every time I come to it.

You brought great base defense the last time you brought a team, that was about it. We would love to see someone with your connections dominate the event. We've managed to do it with a sloppy group of the shard's most loathed or unknowns, since this patch. Every team (even losing) has a chance to get trophies for their top performers so, random or not, if you're out there doing work, you've got a chance at platinum. No one loses anything but time in these events so it's a win/win and great practice for combat, stacked or not.

The majority of the older CTFs were just small groups of mages in synch, farming the matches for kills. Often the players who died a lot, capturing the most flags, would be on the losing team due to a former -1 point for deaths.

This is a team game about capturing flags. Random teams are just groups until they start actively working together towards that common goal.

I've said this in the past, that in CTFs, I will be happy to leave my stacked team and rally up with any other person, or persons, who would like to play with a real team player. This is not a Free-For-All game type and it never has been in any situation I've encountered it. The voices calling for random teams sound a lot like the kids who got picked last on the field in school. I was one of them and I knew exactly why. I was not good at sports. If I gave much of a crap, I would have identified equally skilled folks to practice with and take some basic steps towards improvement so maybe I'd bring some challenge next time.

In this situation, those basic steps are communications before hand, voice communications during (when possible) and coordination throughout. Random CTFs with no good coordination will always be sloppy lopsided messes. For the record, we have had a good handful of fortunately well balanced matches in the history here. It was obvious both sides had a solid amount of people coordinating in voice and taking to selective roles to accomplish the goal.

Aite dude, well for the sake of argument I will make some attempt to join again and dominate, without using any tactic that will give Telamon a headache (of which, I have plenty in mind.) And since you're so happy to, I challenge you to leave your stacked team and join the jakes and montarons that just show up as casuals to try to enjoy it and get shit on.

Incognito'ed names would be hilarious, that'a a great idea.

CTFs are a great opportunity to get casual PvPers or new players involved in UOR PvP. It may not seem like it to you guys that have been PvPing for years, but UO PvP has an **EXTREMELY HIGH** barrier of entry compared to other games of this day and age. CTF is a great way to get people acclimated and to allow for casual/new players to have fun with PvP - because, let's be honest, most casual/new players' experience with UO PvP is going to be getting steamrolled by 3 reds in the Covetuous harpy room.

So it's really important to give these players a taste of victory (or at least the smell of victory) once in awhile. If they join a CTF and get curb-stomped by an organized team, it's going to be pretty demoralizing. If that happens every time they join a CTF, they'll likely just quit PvP altogether. You can say 'grow a pair and keep playing', but that's just not how the majority of people operate. You can also say 'get good, get voicechat, and get organized ', but again, you're asking this of casual and new players. That's just not a realistic expectation to have of those players.

On the other hand, I can definitely understand the argument for organized teams. I've played Counter-Strike, Dark Age of Camelot, League of Legends, and probably others with organized competitive teams and it is an absolute blast. Taking your team up against another competitive team and coming out the victor is a pretty amazing feeling.

I voted for a mix, because it's important to accommodate both styles. In the same breath, I think it's even more important that you don't run your new blood through the meat-grinder.

Go for it, unless you mean abusing bugs and mounting ethereals in matches, again. If there's some elite tactics you can drop that are so pro, do it. If it's so imbalanced, changes can be made to make it better for everyone.

If you have so many tactics that will give Telamon a headache, how about you stop being what you called me and SHARE THEM SO THIS CAN GET BETTER. If there are tactics that will give administration a headache and make the games less fun for all, why would you be keeping that to yourself? I guess there's not just one immature pompous piece of @#%^ around here.

As for getting dissuaded by getting curb-stomped....go duel some more or practice up a bit in the various billion other ways you can get used to using your characters in game. I didn't get good at Call of Duty CTF, Headquarters and every other objective game type by turning on the console. I got good by getting my ass out there and dying for the win. All the while I'm in the mic calling out what I'm doing, where I am, where the enemy is, what they're doing and when I'm about to drop a flag (so my team knows when to pick the next). Also, after earning my chops in objective types, when I finally started playing "Team Deathmatch" (just for kills) I was mopping up the floor because killing was just second nature after constantly running objectives and just killing anyone in my way. This is how TEAM games work. I'm not going to stop playing if the underdogs get CTF nerfed into some random team slopfest like it has been in the past. I'm just not going to be as pleased with the potential.

If there are random teams, I wouldn't mind incognito names because then people won't quit when the realized they got rolled into a group of un-mic'ed nobodies who don't even know there's a flag to capture.

you never got good. running around with a blessed vanq on a stacked teams doesn't make you good.

i'll duel you any time to demonstrate how true this post is.

also you should bring up the time i was trying to help you learn to not suck at being a mage and dueled you for 20 min purposely not killing you. make sure to pretend like it was a competitive duel and that i couldn't have killed you 10x if i had targeted killing-blow ebolts.

serves me right for trying to help you, i guess.