MOAR 4 team CTF PLS

When I'm this on point, that is all they have.

lol, no?


You guys shamelessly tout your dexer agendas with such disregard for balance or actually trying to improve the game that people can't tell whether you're even serious. Staff could never use this forum for ideas because they'd have to wade through 100 giant shit posts for every 1 fair or well thought out idea.


Let's recap what happened in this thread. Some guy mentions that mana regen is such an issue in CTF that he feels inclined to die just to get it back. This is not expected and it punishes 'winning' and promotes suiciding. The longer you are successful in a CTF match (ie capping, killing, not dying) you spend more and more time completely out of mana. It's not fun and doesn't seem in the spirit of the game.

Now as Blaise and Dalavar only came to this thread to ask for changes that help them and not try to make CTF better for everyone, they looked for opportunities segue this into dexer buffs and mage nerfs.

I guess Mes just tends to post pictures of stupid shit all day to make his un-points:

I suggested the delayed respawn timer to provide a healthy penalty for death (that was your concern, if you recall what you actually say around here Mes, no penalty for death). This would be balanced and impact everyone evenly and fairly. Even as a dexxer it makes more sense to die for your mana back than it does to wait it out. This isn't called punishing winners, it's called taking advantage of respawning at full. Make respawning take 30s, which if you were alive, would be what, like 75 mana gained through active med?


I also argued in favor of mages by saying that if they spawned with nil mana, that everyone should spawn with an impact that ensures balance (it was a bad analogy to use the weapon, but I hardly think that statement could be interpreted as pro-warrior/anti-mage). I'm really not sure where you're getting the dexxer supremacy assumptions but it's pretty sad that you're being that ignorant.

To be fair to you, you did make that point about longer respawns and it does a lot for adding more consequences for death. I think in this case though, it probably is not in Telamon's vision of CTF - he probably wants it to be a casual, easy access pvp environment so he'd prefer people be able to jump back in after they die and hit the ground running again. I don't mean to put words in his mouth, it's just my understanding of what the idea behind CTF here is. So I don't think he's likely to add in an increased respawn timer. (So in this case I would still be in favor of scoring being re-evaluated instead)

If you didn't get why I feel like you guys are lobbying for dexer buffs at every turn, I just want to redirect you to the post you just replied to where I quote you. The two of you eventually seemed to come to an agreement on the idea of respawning at the mana you died with. Doesn't address the problems beagle was experiencing, buffs dexers, so a win for you guys right?

It's strange how everything turns into dexers vs mages.

Especially when you consider that it really isn't a black and white issue, there's a good bit of overlap between people who use weapons and people who use magery.

I play a dexxer with 0 meditation, who benefits greatly from getting full mana back when I die. Clearly mes these ideas don't only buff dexxers and nerf mages, as napo mentioned, there is alot of grey area.

I accepted that his idea would be decent but still firmly believe a longer respawn delay would suit both points much more thoroughly. I did some testing with Med last night in CTF and I was able to med back up to near full from red (bar indicator) in 30s. Thus, if we're going to respawn with full mana/unbuffed/etc, then the delay to respawn should be longer to make dying an undesirable action in CTF. There actually is already a delay and this has been adjusted in the past (used to spawn with half-mana).


The big overlap is the people who use weapons and Eval. That is the middle ground impacted by all of these considerations. Being that I run 65 Int on my scribe macer, with no eval, I'd say death for mana is absolutely a concern for all templates.

Let me direct you back to my original post in this thread. It seemed like a good place for CTF feedback, so I figured I'd add it here since Chris is clearly viewing this thread, rather than start yet another one.

I made two points.

1) I don't think Large Cross is a good field
2) I don't like how the points for flag captures and kills are so imbalanced.

I don't see how (1) has anything to do with favoring dexers (if anything, long hallways are most well suited to dexers I'd think since they can swing and throw purples on the run). And it's clear I am in the minority of opinions on it. And (2) is so biased that...

So... back to your point about me stopping by here to promote a dexer agenda... this is the part where I post a picture of a cat, right?

I thought it was the whole spirit of the game, and actually found it the most challenging part of it. I think I average about 2 less kills per CTF with my tank mage than I do with a dexer. If I had known that you got full mana back upon death, I'd have suicided a few times per match and I think I would definitely be able to out-kill most dexers.

That is my guess as well, and if that's the reason you come back to life with full mana, so be it.

this is where the thread took it's usual turn

You mean the part where you read some sarcastic comment and opted to post cat pics? Well played, I guess.

Who can tell if you guys are being sarcastic at this point? Well played, I guess!

People with eyes and reading comprehension above the 7th grade level, usually.

From now on, I will accompany each post with a picture of a cat that represents the tone I am posting in.

For example, here is the cat for this post:


Because this is the first time, I will tell you that I searched Google Images for "honest cat", and this was the first result, so this cat means I am being honest. However, in the future I'm just going to post the picture of the cat and you have to figure it out. Honestly!

So you guys spent half a page talking about how people should respawn with low mana because it takes that long to come to an agreement on what position to be sarcastic on or can we agree that you were serious about people respawning with the mana they died with?'

congrats guys

This is fun.

We're all proud that you have deserved that award four times or so in this thread alone.

Keep up the no work.

Things sure do change a lot when I don't get on for a few months...hahaha

guise lets focus on the important things:
1. 2 team maps with a lot of players are not as fun, the 4 team small ctf map should be default.
2. the big 4 team map should only be loaded (alternated with small) when there is more than 16-20 players (it could be changed so that there is an initial 5 min signup process that tallies the number of participants, then prompts each user with the join team gump once it decides which map will be played.)
3. 2 team maps should only be loaded when there is less than 12 players.

4. there needs to be a lot of points given for killing or else everyone just ignores each other and caps the flag back and forth with little actual pvp, which gets boring
5. there needs to be higher mana regen to keep up, it feels like CTF was made for dexxers. the vast majority of my time in ctf is spent with less than 20 mana.
6. there needs to be a lot of points lost for dying to stop people from letting themselves die to respawn with full mana, and also to curb down on the reckless kamikaze dexxers that run in solo holding down target closest to do as much damage as they can before they die.

7. there needs to be cooldowns or limitations in place to stop from repeatedly capping the same team's flag over and over
8. if not done already, reactive armor, protection, and magic relfect cooldowns need to be wiped after dying so they can be cast immediately upon res.