Actually punish PKs when they die

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Have to consider though that if there are no incentives you would eventually have trammel light, given that this is a free shard it isnt like back in the days of OSI where it wouldnt not have been possible really to say "Fuck this, im pking on <randomshardname> instead". Loving the idea and discussion though from both of you!

Titles,Dye and Cloth are all cool ideas and could certainly be tied to stat-loss. The one thing that concerns me with any and all rewards is the possibility of milking your alts or a friends alt.

Yeah I threw up a little bit when I typed out new mounts.

But I like the idea of special mask hues and sandals cloth titles for deep stat pks

Most pks are very stylish so I think everyone would enjoy this

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I think the current system is fine the way it is.

This is an MMO. If you get steamrolled by a group of PKs then you should look into grouping up with others to defend yourself.
If you're getting PK'd by one player then you're either doing something wrong or just don't care enough to evade or defend against the PK.

As someone who formerly farmed like a madman I've used many tactics to avoid the PK. As a PK I've seen several genius tactics used by others.

If anything needs to be changed it's tracking within dungeons.

Tracking needs to be nerfed badly. You should not be allowed to track from dungeons into other dungeons and the radius for it is huge

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If there is one thing I've learned in UO, it's that someone will *always* bother.

This basically happens naturally already. Solo pk kills a guy - 8 hours logged in. Five pks kill a guy - 40 hours logged in. Yes it's split between the people but this kind of thing adds up quick.

If there ever was a change (and honestly guys, there won't be), increasing the length of a short term by some amount (let's say 3x) would be the best way to cut down on the ganging up that others complain about.

Yes some have said that they think they'd respond by grouping up more, but that's the voice of someone who pks and burns their counts and doesn't want that mechanic to change. No shit talk intended by this - but Pill has like 3-4 reds and has never been in stat. One of those videos in my signature is from his perspective where he loses like 4 reds in one fight.

Let's say short terms were longer and then the teams of reds were too scared to solo and ran around in packs exclusively (they do this already but for the sake of argument): their rivals will know which ones are deep in stat and single out the stat reds in ambushes and leave them dead in stat. I did this every time amfekk left his house on his lilillili character and did the same thing to Mandevu and RRG and PFR once or twice too (although they played different hours than me and it was inconvenient to catch up with them.) Tracking and bringing down a red deep in stat is just about the only time that the murder/justice system feels like it's working at all.

Also being in stat has a way of catching up to you no matter how hard you try to survive. I played exclusively in stat and almost never died to a player but everyone eventually recalls to town on accident or disconnects in a dungeon or gets killed instantly by firebreath.

Frankly with the current system it might have been better to just remove short terms which was pretty much era accurate for the period the server emulates (pub16 range right before age of shadows was released.) But I think lengthening the short terms would have been a good call too, and after several years I will say that the most celebrated reds on the server were the ones that were well known to be in stat - snapdragon (Drastic Fantastic), RRG (Scully and Curly Sue), and PorkFriedRice. All the reds that show up in these threads are just the garbage pks that bumble around in a group of five people trying to fire off enough ebolts to drag someone down and then show up on their alt reds to res themselves after they die to guarding pets.

Just asking, but how? I know staff here doesn't put up with being able to call people the n-word and griefing like other shards do, but whats so different about the murder system here than anywhere else? If anything, it's easier here because even if you gotta macro counts you still earn plat from it.

A lot of good ideas though on the thread. The professional pk's are still gonna pk in stat loss, it's the chump pk's that need to be given some risk... once they hit that statloss mark they'll need to be extra careful and people who actually hunt pk's can have the thrill of putting a notorious red down for a time out.

my 2 cents

I see these threads about massive PK hordes, but honestly anytime i have gone out to intentionally hunt them i have found them exceptionally elusive...

I've come to the conclusion that the only way to truly counter pks is to expand incentives for an anti-pk playmate and not expand upon the consequences. let the pvpers sort themselves out.

unfortunately any such reward system would be extremely difficult to implement without excessive potential to be abused.

but basically here is my theory. PKs have their own innate rewards system, if you win a "battle" you get both prestige and payment (prestige is a natural reward from any contest in human nature) and reward (whatever your target was carrying). Also the vast population of PKs are folks whose primary interest in UO is pvp, so running PK just = more fights because everyone = a potential fight which is essentially another incentive to run a pk.

Based on these naturally innate incentives, most pvpers would not be motivated to run a chivalrous or a strictly "anti-red" character because you would simply be limiting your targets and there is no reward other than very shortly lived prestige. (again if your only targets are reds, it will be like hunting in barren deserts when actually looking for pks).

i would like to see a system that perhaps locks one entire account from running any pks on it. then perhaps use the Justice virtue to provide suitable nongame-changing rewards. To prevent or discourage farming of their own heads, perhap publicly display the souce of all players accumulation of this virtue point.

suitable rewards, i think are listed below

tiered gold rewards for heads of all reds regardless of player bounties

- bounty and only 5 heads can be turned in per 24 hour period (like escorts).
-tier 1 gets 500 gold + player bounty for any red head,
-tier 2 gets 1,000 gold + player bounty and
-tier 3 gets 1,500 gold + player bounty.

check to see if innocent blood has been spilt
- tier 1 can check 2 times per day to see if innocent blood has been spilt and only receive a genral notice "somewhere in the world"
-tier 2 can check 3 times per day and will receive area specific notice "innocentblood has been spilt in windmere woods"
- tier 3 can check 4 times per day and will get area specific and player specific alert "the villain, PFR has spilt innocent blood near windmere woods"

I do not think these rewards would alter the core nature of pvp, but would provide much needed incentive to encourage anti pk style players.


the common sense method to gain this virtue would be tied to turning in red heads, and # of virtue points would be determined off # of short + long term counts times the abslute number of different targets murdered. (this would help stem the potential for farming alts)


@Chris, make it so.

also @Fred I officially request you rename this thread to "Actually reward PK slayers when they win"

and remember what lead to the downfall of UO: Imposing any 1 play style to all players.

If Origin had focused on creating a better reward system for an anti pk playstyle, I bet we could have avoided the further shattering of the gem of immortality.... trammel would still have arrived in the form of blinding threads, but we would all still be in Felluca.

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the primary flaw to this assumption is that anti-pk players would be soley motivated by gold.

Also this model is again attempting to punish a pk (impose a play style) and such a model could easily be abused/gamed to flood shard with gold.

i used to think increase of penalty would deter pk play style, but i had to have a reality check with myself. if you focus on altering only one specific behaviour, you miss maximizing the infinite potential of human ingenuity.

focus on incentives that do not further expand the current penalties already in place and which focus solely on non-pks to fight back and you'll see much more positive results and you won't have to micromanage.

the only argument i see is adjusting the long term counts for the 3 account and unlimited afk allowance. it was previously stated that back in original days, afk playing was discouraged and most people only had 1 maybe 2 accounts tops. i could see that, but again it would be focusing only on detering a primary play style for a majority of any of us "remaining" UOaddicts.

IMO I think with a slightly increased short term count, and make stat loss occur at death rather then res, would be more then enough to sort the actual pks from the bored pvpers trying to force people not interested in pvp to fight.

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EDITED per One's superior math and logic skills



I am for increased short term count timer, but only upon rez. People should have the option to wait if they aren't willing to work. Either way, the point is to put the PK out of business for a while so they don't rez and come back after death.

I am for a bounty system that actually works. The correct way to do it is as we proposed in the past.

Bounties do not expire as they do now.

You can only place a bounty of up to 1,000 gold upon a PK when doing so.

The PK must match 100% of the bounty to Rez.

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Per the above,

Erza gets murdered and pays 1,000 GP to place a 1,000 GP bounty on PK

PK burns Kane in a flamestrike, Kane pays 500 GP to place a 500 GP bounty on PK

Total bounty 1,500 GP

PK dies to Mes, Mess gets 1,500 GP ------- PK pays 1,500 to res ------------ 1,500 GP removed from server by PK payment


Basically, the system above removes the possibility of exploiting the system and removes gold from circulation. Win win.

These numbers seem small, but imagine a PK who hasn't gone down in months or years. Few Pks last this long (wink wink), but this is most likely due to the fact that there is no incentive to stay alive for most PKs now. If both of these were implemented, PKs could be proud of their bounties and we wouldn't get these PVP PKs rolling around town like cowboys. There would actually be risk involved for the Mage PKs who reg up / die / reg up / die / reg up / die.....

And don't give me that nobody would spend money to place bounties. We are talking about 1,000 GP at MAXIMUM to place a bounty.

Wouldn't it be nice to take a PK down with a 500,000 GP bounty on their head? and force said PK to pay 500,000 GP to rez?

PS... It would take 500 kills at max bounty to hit 500,000 GP. That's a lot of kills without deaths. It would be perfectly fair to expect a PK to pay 500,000 GP for a year or more of PKing.