Actually punish PKs when they die

The question was what do you lose ("risk") when you die?

"People want to kill me" isn't an acceptable answer.

Blues are forced into a fight and risk the items they were farming and the tools they were using to do it while a red with no shorts risks regs (if a mage). If anything, the person forcing the fight (red) should risk more...

The fact that reds die everyday is the problem and just going down and losing regs is not "risk".

A ststem that allows reds to gain with no "risk" is as trammel as it gets. No different from a blue farmer hunting in trammel.

I had DSL. Quite a few did by 2000. Even some of the Europeans had ISDN. Heck, even if I were using dialup (which I did for the first couple months), I had two phone lines at home. Lots of people had resources to help them play. Another red herring.

Personally, I think the balance is fine. There was plenty of death and mayhem in the good 'ol days as well. Ganking all around. I just don't get what everyone is so upset about.

Talking about alternatives and developing theories of game mechanics is fine, but again, why try to fix something that isn't broken?

More people die to monsters than pks, and I don't hear you talking about changing them. It's a friggin' game, for crying out loud...

It's my answer, whether you accept it or not. I mean really, who do you think you are? Taking a chance of being out of commission for days or weeks due to your counts is a huge risk. Most pks probably aren't good enough to get dozens of shorts, but it has happened.

Then again, I reject your Trammel analogy. That's ridiculous.

I play a char who hunts reds, often on my own, maybe with someone else if there is anyone willing. I enjoy killing reds when I can, but honestly there is very little incentive to. WHen I see someone in irc say "red in whatever dungeon", if i'm geared up I'll go fight them. Sometimes I find a solo guy most of the times its 3+ . When I actually do encounter a pk who isn't backed up by 3 or more guys, and actually kill them, yes its thrilling but there is literally zero incentive to do so. I know that pk isn't going to carry anything worth looting, maybe a vanq weapon if i'm lucky, but most of the time looting is dangerous in itself becuase most likely that red I just killed or fought is going to call in backup on voice chat. If I kill a red, I think "Hopefully this guy is in stat loss" and I"ll look them up. Oh gee, this guy has 200+ murders and 0 - 2 short terms! No loss for him, rez and back on the hunt. He risked nothing. Me on the other hand, I might lose vanq /power melee weaponsand invuln armor, potions, etc.

People always say "Band together and fight back against the reds!" but really, what's the point? If I want pvp there's factions,order/chaos for that. I like hunting reds, but the only incentive I can get from that is knowing I put someone out in stat loss for a few days at least. Most of the time, that isn't happening because it's literally nothing for a pk to macro off short term counts while collecting plat at the same time. I love felucca rules, but geez... at least make short terms decay at half the long terms, 20 for short 40 for long, and that would probably satisfy most people.

Paddy, I'm still waiting to hear what pressing problem any of this would solve.

Less pking? More dead pks? That solves nothing because there is no problem.

I want to first state I am mainly a PvM'r and I am a tamer, so this is just a my frame, but as a tamer I don't risk anything either if a PKer comes and kills me.

What are my risk? My dragons have to be trained just a small amount (I have a keep for this), I may lose a slayer instrument if they choose to take it, a reg bag, and at most 10k gold.

The PK may enter stat in which they have to wait a bit, maybe a vanq, and reg bag.

I think the risk for tamer and PK are about the same. The difference is for dexxers, but dexxers have other problems all together. That's why Chris has made instances where pets do almost no damage.

It would prevent PKs from being played like PVP charecters that res instantly from keeping shorts under 5. Its too easy to do with 8 hour decay rates.

PKs would be more weary of danger and would "Risk" stat loss upon death instead of nothing (as it is now).

So not answering the question is your answer?

You may have eventually gotten cable but the system was designed for dial up. You were never meant to keep your account on to burn shorts.

The shorts just need to decay slower.

The problem is there's zero risk for pk's who leave their accounts on 24/7. That's been established already. Also, there is no reason to band against pk's either, since you can't put them down for more than 5 minutes and they are back.

Less pk'ing? Probably would deter those who just want a quick thrill and are scrubs anyway who can only kill people if it involves ambushing a bard, aka garbage pk's... the ones who offer nothing to this shard other than killing other players, and don't participate in anything else. The professional pk's won't be deterred but will be forced to be more selective in targeting people and being more careful or will have to sit it out. People who actually hunt pk' s will have more of an incentive to do so, being able to put them down for a longer timeout than 5 minutes.

I don't see a problem. I say let pks play as they choose.

No one's going to change their minds. Really, I should've taken my own advice and left my first post at that.

I think the playing field is as even as ever...

The way I remember it, all the notorious PKs from the early days of OSI were really just the people with the best connections (and thus practically never died anyways) ... The average joe has a much more stable connection these days; why should the PK be punished further?

Perhaps the average joe should start paying more attention!

The more profitable the farming location, the more risk there is to farming there ... (ie... facing PKs) ... This is what makes UO a great game IMHO... I challenge you to name a single player RPG with the replay-ability of UO.

Give the people the tools to govern themselves, and then let them have at it!

*shrug* I'm with Cristoph Brock...

Changing the short terms to 20 hours wouldn't even be noticeable in the grand scheme of things. The average PK would STILL be able to macro off all of their shorts, without every really being too fearful of stat... and the serious PK, will just have multiple reds ready to rock. (Or res in stat, and macro up their skills... OR even PK with ~90 each skill... )

Im a newb to this server. I was a hardcore PK back in 98-2001 (one of the best (or notorious?) on the chessy shard). I have a lot of experience with both sides.

I dont intend to PK on UOR. In fact, I actually do corny things like quests and run around in the woods killing trolls and orcs, cuz well, in my old age, thats fun to me now. You might even mistake me for a noob. Im a casual player now, and I have a deep respect for the fine art of PKing, and I dont wish to put that much work into my experience on here .

I am back on here, playing ultima, in 2016, because PKs. Because I am sick of almost 2 decades of carebear games. Because no game has ever given me the rush that UO does when a gate appears and red names pop out.

Just as has been said in this thread, when you die as a blue, rarely does anything happen but some time is lost. You go right back to playing. You may feel frustrated, but guess what? Your death, and gametime, and energy spent, is all meaningful because of this danger. It gives the game a degree of truth that no other online game has accomplished since.

When you die as a red, its madness. "Macroing your skills back" is not just some trivial thing, Magic Resist for example. It also puts you out of commission for a significant amount of time.

So just my $0.02: From what Ive read in this thread, it sounds pretty fair and balance. It sounds like there are appropriate consequences for being a PK. It sounds like its not so bad for blues. It sounds like its just as hard to be a murderer as I remember it was back in '99. I dont think you need to make it harder to be a PK, or impose more sanctions - they are the fundamental difference between this and most theme park carebear experiences.

So thanks PKs for keeping me on my toes, giving me a reason to keep my wits about, and to play with a real degree of skill.

If changing the shorts to 20 hours wouldn't be noticable... Lets do it and call this meeting adjourned..

I am 100% ok with that...

But I'm also of the opinion that it wouldn't satisfy the people complaining... so what's the point?

I agree that statloss in it's current state isn't much of a deterrent to PKing... I just don't think think changing shorts to decay a bit more than 2x as long will do anything... I also don't think PKs should be deterred that much... as mentioned multiple times in this thread, they keep this game interesting.

Discouraging "discouraging gameplay" is a slippery slope.

Anyone here actually think that the murderer code will be touched in any way... ever?

It will happen.....

soon........

Razor wasn't allowed back in the day, I was a PK back in the day, now not so much.

The idea reminds me of IPY2. If implemented properly, it might be fun... for the non-PVPers mostly.

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This is the only reason I think a higher stat-loss time should be implemented. I really wish these had a bigger pull.

Jumping in on page 6 to mention that PKing is a huge part of the game. Players are here because they are allowed to kill and loot and steal from you. You are here to learn how to stop that from happening. Without PKs the fun of being scared of losing all your shit, wouldnt exist. Stop being a little girl, OR EMBRACE YOUR VAG AND GET BACK ON HELLO KITTY ISLAND ADVENTURES.

All quitters please package your stuff into as few bags as possible for easy transportation to my properties.

I vote less restrictions on PKs and more heat on people who act like bitches after they died in a 20 year old video game