The Dexxer: Should we make some changes? (Long read inside)

Jay and Jaclyn lolol. I forgot about Maria. Poor Maria.

@Loxness

I think we're talking past each other. I don't think you understand what I'm trying to communicate to you. If I have seen your characters pvping, I think it was during the Magincia invasion during the Easter event. I believe you, Crunkjuice, and Broli were at the event. I may be mistaken, but Broli and Crunkjuice were definitely there. In general, I never see any of your characters when I am out pvping. But that is besides the point, I have a variety of builds and I play a tank mage build very frequently and have for over a year.

The point of my post was to show how you have not supported the various things you are claiming. Frankly, I think it's ridiculous to claim the miss chance is 70%. The situation you described is one which is necessarily hard to test which shields your inaccurate perceptions from being easily disproved. If you haven't supported the statement that miss chance is as high as 70% on average, then the default position is that it isn't different than standing still. It's nonsense to think it's reasonable to simply assert something and then require others to spend far more time than you are willing to spend to disprove it.

It's what makes the rest of your OP very hard to take seriously. You claim something which is ridiculous (70% miss chance), don't support, even acknowledge you haven't supported it and then use it as the catalyst to support changes you would like to make the characters you enjoy playing better.

Additionally, unless it was modified, the runuo code does not include a "moving" aspect for melee skills so Telamon would have had to modify the runuo code to include it. I doubt that happened.

Whether or not you have good reasons or justifications for having a bunch of characters with names which could easily be incognito names doesn't mean those character names are not incognito names. This means the evidence you're using to "prove" you're not the Jhelom PK doesn't really show that at all.

Anyway, I don't mean to be overly harsh. Thanks for the discussion, but I don't see the value in continue this any longer. Good luck.

tl;dr: The OP is a flawed, bad case for why dexxers need to be buffed.

About the hit chance i dont sense such a big of a problem to be honest. Regarding two handeds, the special attacks can be a bit buffed and thats about it i think.
I've used a variety of weapons on swordmanship category (even axe with lumber when changing from the archer to the warrior template) and i dont think they fail all that much (allthough i dont run and hit as i use the shield to avoid running), but if its for the sake of the debate...

Wrestling + Fencing/Swords/Macing = Combat master for an increased % hit chance, maybe with a cost of stamina on succesfull hits? Or maybe not an increased hit chance but a higher min/max damage output.

I think anything can be worked around, but it needs a longer conversation. Hook me up on IRC whenever you want to. Im Newt there too

Newt, primarily this is primarily in a PvP aspect/atmosphere. I stated it seems as moving around, and fighting "wrestling" characters in the field seems to be where the hit chance fall off is most noticeable. Fighting monsters doesnt affect this (No movement)

@Iago
I know for a fact some of the "UOR" coding has been altered because Telamon has said so. All types of changes. Things as simple as monsters taking more damage from spells (Double if I am not mistaken) from mages. Why is that? Granted it isn't PvP related, but who knows what he has or hasn't altered and changed. With no one but him being able to see the code, no dispute is out of the realm of possibility.

And adding on to that, the test server (when it was up) wasn't a replica of the servers rules/code set either. He stated that also with tactics changes. I will also throw out there I was "testing" with hit chance and various skills vs skills. Kind of weird how 97.6 skill yielded a 52% miss rate, but it stated/showed in the damage journal it was a 50% chance to hit yet yielded different results. Anyways, I went in and switched it to 100 wrestle vs 100 fencing. Same results. 48% hit, 52% miss.

I know your argument "It wasn't enough chances!" I left it for 90 minutes with a perfect kryss @ max dex (120 tbh). I think the total was 4200ish swings. I showed the results @Chris. He blew it off. Said a 2% difference doesn't matter. So if a journal shows one % and the results show another (In only 1 testing format) who knows what could be found. I'm stating with the eye test, it is way lower when moving. Seemingly between 60-70%ish. And clearly on test center the % displayed and the results don't match up either. AND THIS ALSO doesn't include the fact test doesn't even have all the same rules/patches the current server does.


So...
if 97.6 skill vs 100 skill displays as 50% hit chance...

And 100 skill vs 100 skill displays as 50% hit chance...

And in 4200+ swings shows its a 48% hit chance... When 100 fencing VS 100 Wrestling... Against a wrestler with anatomy mind you.

Something isn't right there, by my math at least. Maybe I am missing something. And this doesn't include moving around either, which seems to highly dimish the hit chance also.

*** This was done on Saturday, ‎April ‎15, ‎2017, ‏‎2:27:26 AM ***



And if someone says I changed the skill to make a 2% difference.... You really are grasping for straws.


*** SIDE NOTE ***
Notice the roll range on damage being 3 to 28?
(3 to 28 being the "damage" of a Kryss by default)
And the final range being 1 to 20?
That is a perfect kryss against invuln plate armor
(No helmet, just a cosmetic bear helmet).

So full invuln plate (THAT NO ONE USES EVER) drops damage
On the low end from 3 to 1, and on the high end from 28 to 20.

AND MY AVERAGE FINAL DAMAGE IS 3. And a Damage Per Minute Of 76.6.

Which means a whooping 1.27 damage per second!!

Interesting, isn't it?

But dexxers don't need any boost?
OR!
Maybe the formulas on test aren't correct?

Hmmmm.....

You decide!





I would also like to add how I said....

And you neglect to mention that. You keep stating I am saying dexxers miss "70%" of the time.

I said seemingly between 60-70% of the time WHEN MOVING in a PvP setting.
But you want to throw out the "70%" a lot.


Let's make sure you add the whole quote and not take things out of context.

​

I provide numbers, stats, pictures, testimonies, theories, suggestions, pros, cons, opinions...

All in an informative, easy to read and follow format. Why is it that people can't do the same back to me?

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preach sir

.

ive talked directly to telamon hes told me if we got people behind a warrior balance hed do it just needed people behind us

people like your sir

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This is more than a "plead" for a change. Broli spoke with him directly, and is the reason I am spending so much time on this particular issue to make it known and have others partake in it.

I really wish @Chris would make an appearance in the thread stating he is monitoring it at least, just to show the seriousness of the thread instead of nothing more than a mere "PIPE DREAM FOR DEXXERS" thread. Maybe then people won't think it is beating a dead horse, and spend their time getting behind it.

Because I honestly think... Chris believes that there are not any problems with dexxer balance. And since the "voice" of the dexxer is so minimal, that people are doing nothing more than "complaining" instead if expressing serious balance issues.


So as I stated in the OP.... If you have an issue, a fix, a pro/con, idea (Within reason), or simply like and support my ideas, let your voice be heard.

**Taps foot waiting for @Chris to confirm**

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Don't forget about Ned Flanders!!

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Stationary gm wrestler versus gm fencer. The fencer jousted, running from off screen directly past the wrestler. 200 jousts were attempted, 95 resulted in a miss. Count my tallies if you don't believe me ;p

Yeah but you have to use Loxness's kryss, his is the one that misses 70% of the time.

Can we stay on topic. If you disagree, say so and leave it at that, orrrrr give me reasons why/why not. Thanks!!



On a side note: Are the stun mages that scared of a dexxer boost they are attempting to derail and pick things out of context? Sure seems that way.

As someone that plays a dexxer(provo/swords) primarily for my entire stay here on UOR so far, these are some of the things I have noticed/wondered/wish changed about the class. And yes I started as a pure dexxer, In fact I have been every type of build on that character at one point in time, but provo proves to be the most versatile.

First I will state that I have always thought and expected for a Melee/Dexxer to play middle of the road when it comes to class capabilities. What I mean by that is that you can pick a dexxer up at any time and go do everything within the game at a moderate success level. One character that can do it all, I want to PvM, grab the right gear and go. Do I expect to solo, Balrons and such without extreme difficulty, no, not one bit...but it can be done. PvP, same thing here, grab a different set of gear and charge the field! Do I expect to be a champion in a field battle? Hell no, but a 1v1 I should be able to hold my own. Instance/Events, grab that different set of gear and go! If you are following along and catch my point, dexxers are mainly based around the gear they equip for the play style they want. Here is a good breakdown of the class capabilities Gideon put together.


Here are some of the things I always wanted changed here on UOR for dexxers:

1. Parrying...for the love of god can we do something with this...anything...hell even just the basic % chance to block(large shield block more damage, but less often/small shield block less damage, but more often), rather then get all complex right away with spell damage mitigation

2. Archery...come on, we have been hearing this complaint for years now...take away the stupid movement hit modifier, and use the range as its special attack, yeah it is on every shot, but it is a start.

3. While you are at it, repair deeds for those bows/staves...just saying, I think they were promised back in patch 43?? No need to work them into a massive BOD roll out, just the repair deeds, thanks.

4. Not dexxer based but still a huge balancing issue...extra bond slots...can I get bond slots for my slayer weapons?, hell Ill even take a 50% durability lose on them so I have to fort powder them again.

There are some more specialized buffs/changes I would like to see but lets start with the basic stuff before we go all crazy and have to worry about balancing.


Commenting on the Hit% issue, something you guys may have over looked during testing. I see you tested GM Wrestling vs GM Weapon skill, has anyone tested the passive Defensive Wrestling(Eval/Anat) vs GM Weapon skill, Or has anyone tested Passive Defensive Wrestling combined with Wrestling skill vs GM Weapon skill? I know it is said they do not stack, but are we sure? Hell I don't even know if there is a mage build that would encompass those 3 skills, but it is worth a shot.

It has been a few days since I read through all these posts so I am sure I am forgetting something I had thought up when first reading them. If the ole knoggin pulls something forth I will add it in later.

Took only a few minutes for the knoggin to kick in and remember, Ha!

To speak of slayers, I think the slayer drop rate is fine, the more people out there hunting is causing the sale threads to rise. What I wish would happen would rather the monsters they drop on be increased. It is okay to have the higher tier monster drop slayers...but as a melee/dexxer I am not out hunting these monsters on a regular basis. Why not add/increase the drop rate of ruin/might/force on the low to mid tier monsters? Would be nice to loot my own slayers for once!, rather then just the plain old silvers that are everywhere...lets make the most profitable hunting class in the game(tamers) loot the one thing that would help dexxers keep up with them, so that they can sell it to them and make even more gold...seems a bit backwards, doesn't it?

For Pvp the biggest downfall for melee/dexxers is that mages can pack on 32 armor with literally no effect to them, this is the biggest obstacle for physical damage dealers. I think it was pointed out before that melee is not meant to have huge dump style damage, and this is true, consistent damage over time is what we are made for...take away some of that armor and with our consistent damage you will see more mages red lined and looking for a quick heal.

Add reflect clothing.

@Cero 90% of the mages that aren't tamers run defense + regular wrestling. Anatomy+Healing (common stun mage) is the template that is the most popular here. This is because with weapons not hitting at the correct 50%, tank mages aren't really viable. You will see others saying "Yes they are!" Or "I use my tank mage all the time!!" But they are really on stun mages lol.

And @Chris vahamantly denied that the stacking of the 2 is not happening. I suggested that as soon as I noticed the missing.... But without seeing any type of coding, we have to go on our eye test and his word. Which my eye test tells me, and several others agree, dexxers miss far too much against wrestle stun mages.