A bad thread about PvP/Reds

It does seem like people play Razor more than they play UO. *shrug*

I look at it as a challenge and a learning experience.

Make a list.

Someday you may be able to cross a few names off.

Never forget.

Yea exactly guy, point and case, you're talking out the side of your grill.

It would be easier following your point if you had one, cause for real I don't see one, I see a guy who's rowdy about catching Rez kills for buffoonery on some tangent ass everything blows dick hype.

You bitched about 20 things in your first post most were in the universe of reds so 'low me guy if I missed your other boo boos.

Allow me to walk around your pram and pick these toys up one by one. For clarity my responses to PK beef is in red, other boo boos in orange.

Okay, so I'm not going to try to restructure everything here into quotes. My original statements are in white. Earsnots replies are in red. My replies are in orange.

It seems everyone here has a red character that they are just jumping spawns with, killing whoever they can, rinse and repeat.
And why wouldn't they? - I don't have a red, I PK occasionally, when someone's being a cornball, but I'm not on no willy nilly murder spree. This is just your opinion homeboy.

From a new guy on the server, and someone without 5 years experience in the field. Yeah, this entire thread is an opinion, and it's unchanged. Reds get a free ticket and play without any real consequences.
The only thing I have done here is put up some suggestions; some small, some extravagant, but none are Trammel. Most are roleplay friendly and do not change Felluca at all. Nor do most of my suggestions change the playstyle of the red character. I'm simply addressing where said playstyle is exploiting things that weren't possible in this ero of UO.
My suggestion for a two-second delay on being able to attack straight out of a gate is pretty fair. This era of Ultima Online did not support macro attacking. Human being's could not do what you do without razor, and my advice takes both sides - It doesn't effect razor whatsoever, it simply adds a method to compensate for an unfair advantage. Two seconds.

They can loot you and be back in their house before the gate even disappears. - fuck those clever ass dudes for figuring out a smart system to get back safe with yo hard earned rubies.

They shouldn't be able to gate at all while red. You can't use a moongate when criminal. You can't use recall when criminal. Why can you use a gate? The travel system is supposed to be barred during combat. The game straight up says, 'Thou art a criminal and cannot escape so easily.' If a player has gone red, well... Thou art a criminal and should not be able to escape so easily.

Not to mention this is also driving your economy up to a real-world problem resembling the 1%. - please let me see your findings professor boff boffington because this shit sounds wild!

One house per account would be a smarter decision -- Invite people to some land. It's sure as hell not being used well currently. - who made you judge Judy of ultima and capable of ruling on what a player uses his bricks and mortar for guy? Wind yo neck in....

Just look around. You've got around 200 people camping a few THOUSAND houses. - Professor boff boffington! Nice to see you again my guy, hows that maths and knowledge working out for you in made upville?

200 active players multiplied by 15 houses each = 3000 houses. I'm guessing it's more like 250-300 active players and 5-10 houses each, but a few thousand houses on this server is a very believable number. Of those thousands, many are simply empty and only keeping new players from claiming their own land.

You want new players. Fix the issues that allow PK's to exploit the mechanics. - so far homeboy, the only thing getting exploited here is how much you love handin over yo rubies.

Else, patch it by punishing those who are out mass murdering the countryside. - my guy....for real? A complete playstyle nerfed because you don't like it?

Umm. The game mechanics are being exploited, and out of my many suggestions, only the one about being able to guard whack you if your camping a house nerfs you. -- and I'll admit, that's a pretty extreme suggestion -- Other than that though, I've suggested no nerf for the playstyle. Only a fix for the mechanics. Kill decay and bounties, neither of those two things nerf a red in any way. It simply fixes the time frame to more reflect this era of UO. - Etc, addresses an exploit, and thus is a bugfix, not a nerf. Also, the two second delay on gates that the game never intended for you to be using, also doesn't nerf you. it fixes a way that razor exploits the game beyond a newcomers ability to manage, and it does it by ensuring that you aren't reacting faster than a human can.
But, dear god, 6 months as a young in Occlo is not an answer. - "in my opinion"

Locking new people in Occlo is like signing their death warrant for a whole nother slew of reasons. - you not spot that glowing blue vagina? Coulda bounced whenever homeboy.....
I never took part in the young program. I had no desire to be in Trammecclo.

The freedom of UO is supposed to be 'play your way' - ooooooh I get it guy, you want one rule for you allowing you to play your way and another rule for Reds that also have...to...play...your way too?

I'm losing IQ points over here. Barring house-guard whacks, I have suggested only exploit fixes that would restore an era accurate balance to the mechanics. Beyond that, I have only suggested an increase in bounties to incentivize standing up to you. In the end, I'm bringing blues to the red playstyle once they start hunting you. Or do you just not like that idea because being red would actually mean something then?

My playstyle is invalid. I get it. Message received. - Na fam, your playstyle is ill equipped. Not invalid. If you wanted to play a race car it would be invalid, you need for speed freak.
But this is the message that is sent when the playerbase actively supports the exploitation that reds can currently implement. I'm not saying that my sole purpose as a PvM player on this server is to be present for red players to come looking for me, I'm saying that, realistically, I serve no other purpose with my PvM style, and that I have no way of engaging in that aspect of game play with a fair shot due to a macro's ability to sent 100 points of damage my way instantly. My only current method of dealing is to hope I am recalled or through the gate, before your attack lands. -- This is not era accurate. I should be able to hold my ground. A red currently does not even have to examine his screen to pull off these attacks. He simply hits two hotkeys, and then see's if there's a dead guy on the ground, and if you're not instantaneous with your own hotkeys, then you will be dead.

And exactly why am I now a troll and a snowflake? You were pretty constructive up until this point.

I miss Hiji

My guy, I'm not fucking with you or this thread, you're a straight up cornball.

Your ideas are stoopz, to the mother fuckin max and you're a precious little snowflake.

"Reds shouldn't own houses, reds shouldn't be able to use moon gates, if a reds near my house I want to double click the sign which makes guards show up kill the red, loot there house and auction it."

Get recked guy.

Ok, so now that I've cleaned out my ears... Anybody else out there feel that...

It should be one house per account - to promote fair housing.

That reds should not be able to use runes/gates - because criminals cannot use runes/gates.

That there should be a two second delay between using a gate and being able to attack/speak. - Because razor functions allow the gater to attack another player before the human mind can recognize that there is another player. (Meaning the gater can attack you before he knows you are there.)

That short term kill decay needs to be longer to more reflect OSI mechanics.

That long term kill counters should directly reflect bounty, and incentivize pvp between blue and red players.

Making the bounties larger would likely give incentive to PK. For instance, raise the bounty to 50k per head as suggested, I go PK and get my counts, I log in on another account (blue) or one of my friends kills me, collects the bounty. The risk for abuse seems high.

That wouldn't bother me, however, housing isn't that big of an issue here except for larger homes. It's still possible to place houses here.

How would you implement that? Is the server going to buy back 12 houses from each player or will they be grand fathered in? If they're grand fathered in you're only hurting the new players. If you're suggesting buying all of the houses back, with your numbers, 250 players, selling back 12 houses each @250k (not counting upgrades or contents) per is around 750M gold, or about 3M gold per person at a minimum. For players who have spent platinum to buy upgrades, will the server buy that back as well or credit their accounts?

I'm sure my numbers are off, but it's a lot of inflation no matter how it's done.

True on the abuse of bounties, but honestly, if reds were out on the map where they could be engaged outside of their own terms, instead of being able to gate straight home after doing their deeds, I think that the multi-account nature of UO;R Would encourage this, and there would definitely be a balancing act on the part of the red player in managing his scam. Does he cash himself in after the first kill, or does he try to rack up a substantial bounty and risk actually being brought to justice? And if the kill decays and timers were revised, this could become an even more provocative playstyle towards drawing newcomers. The further you go... The more risk there is.

I'm not honestly sure how to handle the housing issue. I just know a few other new players who are looking at the world map and agree that it's discouraging to see that the playerbase here is hoarding it. So many places are just entirely empty, towers, keep, fortresses, not to mention the smaller footprints.

There are people that do not utilize houses to their full potential, but as a whole I wouldn't call it "hoarding." Look at the number of houses given away in the last 3 months. It seems like there's always a give-away going on.

It hasn't been that long ago since a house was sold for feathers. If I'm not mistaken that has happened at least twice (since I've been here) in an effort to make it reasonable for new players to acquire housing. Ragnar seems to give houses away all the time and every time he does 2 more people jump in and give more away. If you count those, along with the other events that I left out and the new player housing programs, housing really isn't an issue here.

I've placed 3 houses since I've been here. There's room. I've bought 2 for deed price from other players. I've found several other spots and chose not to place anything. Unless you're holding out for a large or massive footprint house, it shouldn't be an issue. I purposely did not partake in any of those contest, but, it's an extremely generous server.

I can't argue the generosity of some people on the server, but I also can't argue that there are not a ton of empty tower+ footprints. Especially in the upper range of housing, I was talking to another new player today who was making many of the same observations. The server seems to be almost owned by the people who have been here since the beginning, Keeps are selling for 10-20million gold, and the only reason they are considered so valuable is because they are mostly owned by a small handful of people.

I, of course, can't back that statement up, but In short, it really feels like the established player base is saying. You don't deserve this because you haven't been here as long as we have.

In short, large properties should be valuable because they are scarce and actually owned by varying members of the population. Currently, it feels like there is a monopoly, and monopolies are very bad for new business, definitely in such a small group of active players.

Damn guy, someone really farted in your cheetos huh?

Of course there isn't a bunch of empty tower+ spots, this place is 5 years old? You roll into a all you can eat buffet 10 minutes before the mutha closes you're gonna get scraps guy. Hush your beak, hustle like the rest of us and save your rubies and cop a spot off your hard work because my guy, your sense of entitlement is straight crazy right now.

Chris said so himself that the average player with 3 accounts own 2.4 houses, your just pullin' numbers out your beak like crazy guy.

I had a L tower a month of playing, that I placed myself after copping a patio spot, its the same size on the ground, just gotta make room for the wings.

And I didn't even have a tamer back then, you aint the voice of new players, quit speaking for a group about your boo boos because the shit your saying isn't happening. its straight not happening.

I'm legit interested my guy, whats your goals on this server, give me a timeframe. I'll tell you whats up....

The "no actions for 2 seconds after exiting a gate" is kind of a cool idea, and frankly if it was in UO from day one in 1998, I think it would make plenty of sense to all of us. Actually wasn't there a delay in using a moongate again after exiting one? ("Your spirit lacks the cohesion somethingorother")

El Horno, you should make a guide with tricks like that mountainside thing!

IMO I think res-killing is discouraging, but sounds like that's not an official shard position.

This whole thread can be summarized by... "I want this server to work differently than it does because I refuse to learn from my mistakes or listen to the advice happily provided by vets. I will not get better or change my gameplay, but maintain that THINGS NEED TO BE FIXED."

I tried to take this seriously and read it in it's entirety... I almost made it. Here are a few notes.

You're asking for CORE gameplay changes based on FALSE assumptions.

If you want to fight a pvp character with your pvm character, you've already messed up. You've been given EXACT details on how to prevent being pk'd.

Large towers can still be bought for less than double deed price over FIVE years into the server. There is no housing crisis or barrier to entry. You can place small houses with ZERO effort and most medium houses with very minimal effort.

If you're being res killed, you are the one who is allowing it to happen. As others have pointed out, help stuck, gate, or visit another healer.

PKing is not rampant here AT ALL. Please check any other server with fel rules in the history of UO servers for context.

For your own sake, please either take the time to understand the mechanics here or create a place that has the exact mechanics that YOU think are THE REAL WAY TO PLAY UO. sigh.

Guy over at The Salty Dog just posted about killing eight green boss harpies, count em 8!!! pics included, in 57 minutes.

How the hell he do that without the PKs gateing in and insta killing him at least 4 times?????

Y'all seem to think that you're going to shut me up without explaining why a mechanic should be in place other than... 'that's the way it's always been here.'

I've changed my tone anytime I've said something I believed to be stupid - ex: house whacking.
Tell me why something is good the way it is. Tell me why it's fair, how the game is challenging, how more risk = more reward for you. Convince me that I'm wrong instead of telling me that I'm wrong. Thus far, you are just calling me names and berating me.


As for the houses, You can refute me all you want, but the evidence is on the map.
And yes, the tower has a fairly reasonable price. The keep on the other hand. -- Wow, that's quite a jump
My opinion is an observation. I've simply said, hey... as a new player, I see a lot of this.

And Cromwell, this has never been about the frequency of kills by reds. It's always been about PvP.
So, Puck, wtf is the difference between a PVM and a PVP character?
I'm betting my dexxer is the exact same as yours, and I bet I'm better geared when you walk through the gate, and I bet I'm also carrying more pots/bandages.
I also bet my tamer/mage is the exact same as yours. The only difference is your coming in with fresh mana pools and maxxing me instantaneously because you're using a gate that I sure as hell couldn't use if I was criminal.

Y'all seem to think I'm some dude thats just out here dying all the time.
I'm not, but I am dying everytime somebody gate jumps me.
You would think that that right there would at least put up a decent conversation, but no.
You want it the way it is so that you can continue to abuse the power it gives you over everyone else.

I think anyone that creates several alt accounts to push the same failed agenda should be banned for life.

Who's creating alt accounts?