Let's discuss making someone's else's things into our things without their consent! Clearly some folks have strong feelings on thievery and how the mechanics operate in this glorious profession. This thread (ideally) will serve as a place for discussion on these topics. Who knows, maybe we'll figure out a better way. I'll start out with a few things: So, stealing can fail at GM? That's weak sauce. Stealing should never fail at GM, the only RNG involved should be whether or not the thief is noticed (thereby turning grey for the world to see). I'd like stealing that goes unnoticed to not-break stealth. I'd like to see mounting an ethy not break stealth (you can hide on a real horse, and you can mount a real horse in stealth without breaking stealth so we have a conflicting precedent.) I'd like GM stealing to have a chance (not guaranteed) to steal items over 10 stone. I'd like to see larger stacks stolen, as opposed to like a dozen regs out of a 100 stack for a steal attempt. What would you like?
Fun fact! Did you know that logging out with a disguise kit active will update the name of the house owner if you are one?
I'd like stealth to auto apply when you run out of steps(Or attempt too) but that just means I can be extra lazy. Even a grandmaster thief can, in D&D terms, "Roll a one" and trip and fall face first into the noblewoman's bossom and botch the job. While the chance may be small I agree there should always be a chance. The ten stones thing I do believe is in large part a balance issue, but I also believe that it represents the limit of what you can pocket stealthily. If a guy tries to pull a halberd from mr and stick it in his pocket, I feel that short of him being completely invisible I would notice that. Since we don't have size ratings, just weight, then it falls to us to rely on weight instead.
Sounds good. Oh before I forget, I assume I'll never miss when I swing my katana at you, since I'm GM Swordsmanship. Right? If 10 seconds have passed since you last renewed stealth or used any other skill, I think this would be a nice ease-of-use change. * * * * * So basically you're saying you'd like to take stuff from people, and if you win the RNG roll, you can just walk away and leave them wondering what happened to their item. Was this ever possible, in the history of UO? Do you realize how many GM pages there will be when new players think something in their pack just disappeared? This thread is the equivalent of me asking to be able to tame Elder Wyrms.
Yep! Once in a while I'd like a perfect steal with the mark unaware that anything even happened until later. If I get noticed, I should be revealed. "You notice Tuco Ramirez trying to steal from Rich Guy." should reveal me. If I steal and stay blue, I should stay hidden too. What was possible in the history of UO is not what is possible here, so that's not really a good metric. Perfection, right?
Of course it's a good metric. When people come here, they expect as a baseline that this shard will be similar to historical UO. If they didn't want that, they wouldn't be here. Changing or "perfecting" stuff is a nice draw too, but when "perfection" means people's stuff disappearing in plain sight because you spent a week AFK macroing Stealing and Stealth, I don't really see that as Perfection.
When you say "perfect steal" I, again, think of the D&D 3.5 term natural 20. A critical sucess. A rare event that represents the universe alligning for true perfection. IE, a rare chance that you get such a perfect steal, not a high chance.
Honestly, I'm good with the way things are. The point of this thread is not that I want things done. The point is some folks do want things done and this is a nice place to talk about it. You see, there is this other thread for pictures and stories which tried to derail into a discussion about what thievery needs. I made this thread in an effort to give that discussion a home. That said, I didn't do stealing with stealth back on OSI, so I have no idea how that part went. My point on that topic is that since this shard is "UOerfected" we should perhaps focus on how to make it perfect as opposed to making it the era accurate. Obviously improvement in many systems has already happened. So what do people think needs to be improved with thievery?
My opinion: - Stealing should fail according to the weight of the item. It's a good way to balance things and it's also nice that dexxers have at least one or two safe weapons. Still, I have the feeling that 10 stone items fail a bit too much (I think I got like 5 fails in a row on a 10 stone item recently). Problem is, I don't have the correct values for that (did no statistically sound testing). - The stealthed mounting of ethereals would be really nice and helpful to get (experienced) thieves out of cities into dungeons and the field. And it provides a big game perspective: the acquisition of an ethereal. - Stacks are very problematic. Even if it would be adjusted to the max. amount that is stealable from stacks (weight of 10 stones, i.e. 500 gold or 100 regs) one would fail way to often. Right now, the optimum steal value is between 6 and 7 stones. That means that most of the stacked steals are an extreme risky waste of time. - Unnoticed stealing = staying blue (also for the mark). That's fine I think and should also happen more often (it is really rare). But still being stealthed would be way to overpowered, in my opinion. Can't expect from players to constantly monitor every bag in their inventory. Also, the most interesting aspect of stealing is the running away from a chaser. That's kind of pvp. Wouldn't want to miss that.
Agreed, mostly. Not all melee fighters have overweight weapons. Fencing in particular has only the pitchfork, which is pretty crappy but I daresay fun to fight thieves with. Archery has no weapon that cannot be stolen. The "heavy" crossbow should be 10 stone, in my opinion. It's presently 9. I do not agree that stealthed mounting of ethereals should be possible. As I suggested in the picture thread, some bonus for having Hiding and Stealth skills, like reduced mount time, perhaps. Otherwise, just no. At best, a 1s mount time. This would be a very brief window for possible reaction from the mark before you get to run off with no mount fatigue. I don't feel you should be revealed on a successfully unnoticed stealth steal, but definitely flagged criminal/grey for the standard two minute timer. I do feel that there should be a very clear system message for players who have been stolen from in such a scenario. "You notice %item% missing from your pack. Be on the lookout for thieves!" This gives them the chance to cast Reveal, if they can, or start Tracking. I personally run 30 Tracking on a few of my melee guys. I think for stacked items, as a GM thief, one should know how much they can grab safely. If, for example, there's no chance to fail at stealing 8 stones at GM, then that is exactly how many the GM thief would try to take from any pile when applying that skill. Maybe slightly higher so there's a small margin of failure on there but really, the stacked stuff should be an easier grab. Except platinum, because magically it should weigh 9 stones a piece.
My thoughts: Absolutely no way Jose. Items just mysteriously vanish from my pack with no feedback as to what happened? That's both bad game design and an avalanche of support tickets waiting to happen. I can see guaranteed success on very light items, but I vote no on anything heavier than a couple stones. I'm on board for this one. This is OK by me too, though it breaks quite a bit with convention. Definitely agreed. Stealing from a stack should have a smaller variance window, based off of your skill.
Problem, when mounting a horse while hidden, the horse then disappears and is therefore a telltale sign of something amiss. They also become visible when dismounting while hidden. I haven't tested this in stealth, but considering ethy mounts and how they work, I'd say this is a no go.
