Disarm Thief

Are you sure?

I thought you could double click the character you're targeting to bring up the paper doll, then set last target to the weapon in their hand.
Then, whilst still hidden, you can either steal the weapon when they disarm it to cast a spell (traditional thief template),

OR

You run up, disarm them, then click your macro for steal last target.

If I'm wrong, any more experienced rogues please reply. I know you can identify the weapon in someone's hand via a target if you bring up their paper doll and click on it. Why couldn't you steal last target?

Yea, this makes sense on why you wouldn't need snooping. However, it limits the amount of items you want to steal. At the end of the day, I guess you only want to steal weapons anyway. lol

If you wanna pass up stacks of plat in a pack for weapons, that's none of my business...

Don't really need snooping. You can set the weapon to last target when your opponent has it equipped.

Razor - Hotkeys - Targets - "Set Last Target"

I actually started another thread, but maybe I can get it answered here... Does Arms Lore help in disarming?

To be fair, I think Tuco was originally addressing the bold part of your question by saying you NEED snooping. Sure, you can make a pure disarm thief but it will definitely be a niche character. I could see that being used during server events when players are bringing out their slayers.

Arms Lore is needed to be able to disarm at all.

From the guide "Wrestling is a combat skill used to calculate chance to hit when unarmed. Wrestling combined with Arms Lore will allow the disarm special attack. Wrestling combined with Anatomy allows the stun special attack (80 in each skill = 40% chance, 100 in each skill = 50% chance)."

Awesome, thanks Garvey!

It's basically a religious argument for me, honestly...
For me, snoop is to thief as EI is to mage. Do you absolutely need it? Well, no... but without it you are limited, fettered, nerfed even.

It all depends on your playstyle: Do you want to use the disarmer as weapon grabber only or as your main thief with classic thieving abilities?

Another question is, how does a mounted disarmer snoop peoples bags without them backing off (obvious exception: AFKs)? You would have to act innocent and smooth talk people into dropping their caution.

I think, I would use my classic stealth thief and switch to my disarmer, when I see a weapon worthy to steal. Or actually, steal the weapon with the classic thief, by just waiting for the mark to make a mistake (casting a spell or unequipping otherwise).
With the skill points safed from not having snooping on the disarmer, you could make him a fighter/mugger thief. That means, steal stuff randomly, wait for people to attack you (they go grey) and kill them (without getting a count).

So many options.

I've always wondered about the Era-related specifics of doing exactly what you just said, on this server.

I always thought (possibly incorrectly) that being in the Thieves Guild meant that you couldn't kill anyone, ever, even if they're the attacker. I thought it was unfair but that it was a trade-off to circumvent "Griefers", because before the notoriety system changes and the addition of the thief guild, you could do exactly just that .. steal something, get attacked, then kill and loot the character.

Can you clarify for me, thx.

I have no mugger thief myself, but I know for sure, that you dont get counts when you are being attacked first. And I have seen mugger thiefs in action, so, yes, that type of play definitely works.

However, I think, that you are in trouble as disarmer, who is normally attacking first, especially when your victim dies (e.g. to monsters around) and gives you a count.

If you get a count, you are suspended from the thieving guild as long as you have ANY counts. That means you have to wait until your long tem count fades in order to use stealing on players again.

Dalavar suggested the classic Disarm Thief template:


Magery
Stealing
Snooping
Wrestling
Arms Lore
Hiding
Stealth

I feel like I am maybe qualified to comment on this topic. I don't think this template has much use at all and I will tell you why.

For starters, let's assume one possible method of disarming. You must find a target that is stationary long enough for you to stealth next to them, and wait out the skill-use timer, then attack->disarm and immediately steal. Now your delay is reset, so your only hope of escape is a pre-existing gate, counting on the player to have no other weapons or magery to use against you, or by immediately casting invis, hoping for no explosion potions, meteor, or reveal spell, while you wait out the delay and stealth away. All of this effort, for a weapon. (I remind you, all of the good weapons are blessed, and the runics than have managed to exist long enough to unbless, are brought straight to and from trammel-ruleset events). This situation has immense risk, and very little pay.


Another likely plan is to charge someone and attack-disarm-steal-flee. This has less risk than the above, however, the template then hosts at least 1 completely wasted skill (stealth) that could be better appropriated. The main benefit here is that you can have the target set to last target, initiate the attack with attack-last (unneeded if they attack you prior), have steal already cursored ("fast cast" it), but the result is the same. Sure, you could make use of landscape (gates, teleporters, dungeon entrances, etc), but then your opportunities are less and less frequent.


The other example is more of a utility. Provided you find a character adequately AFK (A good indicator is the name "Peace"), that is also accessible (in guardzone but away from npc vision, or outside, both of these WITH a worthwhile weapon), then you have an opportunity. But I would remind you that in 100% of these situations, it is always more beneficial to simply kill the player (monster luring, gate in a PK, take a count, or other nefarious tricks with potions etc).


There is very little use for this style template beyond a few select scenarios. The prevalence of the Halberd and WarHammer in PvP make opportunities less and less likely, in addition to the limitations imposed by the item bless system for factions. Including the arms-lore skill on templates such as this should simply be for utility. I maintained such a character (with alternative skills mind you, to explore other utility opportunities) simply in the event that a situation arose where I want a weapon from an AFK player, and did NOT want them killed. (A situation that presented itself only a handful of times).


So, what do you do?


If you are set on disarming, I first strongly suggest you change your mind. Decent players will have exceedingly heavy weapons, blessed weapons, backup weapons, magery, friends, or simply flee once they are disarmed ruining any further profit/fun. I feel this is at best a griefer style "bank thief" template, with the ability to make repeated resses at brit healers on pilgrimage to the graveyard hoping to score a vanq kryss.


Instead, I suggest you become more PvP oriented. Re-plan your template to something more similar to this (adjusting for other minor skills you may want).

Swords
Tactics
Snooping ~60
Stealing
Arms Lore
Wrestling
Healing
Anatomy ~40

(Yes I am well aware there are 8 skills here, but you only require a minor amount of snooping, since being detected isn't of concern. Remember, when skimping on heal/anat, you always go for higher healing, unless you NEED to res, in which case, you should be PvE'ing anyway.)

This template is similar to one played by Tagaar (TG), with the required disarm skills swapped in for Magery. In fact, I think no disarm at all is better, but whatever..... You quite simply must be well equipped. If you are to play what is essentially a pure dexer, you absolutely need proper equipment. Heal/Cure/Refresh/Explode potions are a must, as is proper armor, and a good weapon. If you run into 2+ mages, your chance of success is immediately reduced, although, playing UO in easy-mode like an ignorant ruffian (ie: on a mount) makes death essentially impossible.

Dexers are, for the most part, the rock to the mage/tank-mage's scissors. In 1 on 1 combat, vs a mage (tank or otherwise) if played correctly, you have every advantage, provided you are properly stocked and practiced. Ideally, these anti-mage dexers will have magery or other auxiliary skills, which make them weak to other "pure" dexers, who may have shields, heavier armor, poison, and so on. However this template has the benefit of allowing you a chance to disarm them. Granted, good players will have other weapons, or immediately re-arm preventing any steal, or swap to a heavy weapon preventing the steal.. But I guess it's "okay".


Now you might be saying "Well, I WANT to be a filthy bank-style thief and frustrate people for little to no profit because I think it's fun". Well, imagine how much more fun that would be if you had more opportunities to steal because the target did not immediately flee, you did not die immediately to synchronized spell-dumps, and your prize wasn't (at best) a 25 vanq non-halberd/warhammer weapon. I know you're a smart person and you have come to the same conclusion that I have. Therefor, go make a mage/utility thief. If you would like, I can discuss the pros and cons of that template, and give you some idea of why it's my preferred playstyle.


tl:dr
If you want to disarm, be a pure dexer w/ disarm. Target SOLO mages/tank-mages/thieves/dexers, stay away from groups of 2+ mages, and PvPers of equal or greater skill to your own. Still, dexer pvp is unrewarding beyond being a minor pest or preying on newbies, and the pay is very low. Disarm is mostly a utility skill with very limited opportunities for use.

That's what I wondered about a disarm thief. If you initialize the attack, say from hidden, do 1 dmg, and run off w/their weapon..
..when they die (eventually or through seppuku), can they give you a murder count for doing a dmg?
I thought there was a way to do no damage with wrestling. If you have zero tactics?

As for a fighting thief, it used to be easy once upon a time when archery ruled all (on OSI), but not so much anymore.

I think a (weak) mage/thief is the only way to incorporate hiding and stealth, while still having a method of attack.
And even then, it sucks b/c you have no magic resist and you're only dusting newbs that attack you & occasional melee fighters.

GM Stealing
GM Hiding
GM Snooping
GM Stealth
GM Wrestling
GM Magery
80 Eval
20 Meditation

One could take 20% true skill in meditation, get the stat bonus on it, and have 80% eval int; it's not like you were going to be successfully killing pvp characters with GM magic resist to begin with, right? (pick your targets)

Then there's my favorite, the survival thief:

GM magic resist
GM wrestling
GM stealing
GM snooping
90 hiding
70 stealth
60 anatomy
60 healing
20 magery

This poor bloke doesn't always succeed in life, but he can recall via scrolls, he can heal himself, cure poison with some success, can take 7 steps stealthed without a failure, only fails to hide 1 in 10 times or so, and can handle being around higher level mobs where the best potential targets are because he has GM wrestling and GM resist. He also has a very good chance at getting away alive w/the loot.

He also takes advantage of major stat bonuses to his non-GM'd skills, which display much higher than true skill at those levels.

mage/med and 0 resist is better than resist/heal/anat in terms of pure defense/survivability.

About muggers and kill counts : not really a concern.... Muggers will almost always fight against flagged target (being attacked), they do not really have to be in thief guild.

You can still steal from criminals and murderers when suspended from thief guild.

I consider them like a pvp char that can disarm and steal opponents weapons (mostly effective in factions,choas/order and guild wars). That's why you can skip snooping.

Usually a mugger steal from normal players (thieving needed) and provoke them to attack you this way. Then you kill them.

Mugger =! disarmer.

Mage/ Med/ Eval/ Resist/ Wrestling/ Armslore/ Steal.

NOTE1: Use "Net New Target"/ "Set Last Target" and target the dexers weapon in the paperdoll.
NOTE2: Pay attention to your health/ enable reactive when u can (gives you the time to disarm and steal in a chaotic moment).
NOTE3: Then enable "Primary Ability" through in game macros proceed to disarm the enemy.
- Then after u successfully disarm their weapon use your steal hotkey then "last target" and u got their weapon.
Good Luck!

dfgs

Glad I stumbled on this thread on Google lol, I thought it was Tactics required for disarm. Time to swap that out for Arms Lore.