That is right ladies and gents! The age of the griefer getting away with his crimes against Sosaria have now come to a close. With the inception of AGA, it is our duty to rid the world of all villainy and scumbaggery. Whether it be griefing the server with an unsightly zerg of magic arrow casting naer'do wells, stealing a spawn from a helpless bard, or murdering an innocent civilian, the AGA will be there to see your thirst for revenge fulfilled! No one shall go without their most basic of needs fulfilled while we are around! (tips are not required, but appreciated) I have been on this server for a couple months, and I see a void that needs to be filled. Many people seem to be interested in getting involved with factions but seem to be too afraid of the current faction leaders, or just at a loss for where to begin. Well, look no further! You begin right HERE with the AGA! We accept any and all PvPers who wish to have fun in the name of dead dudes! (and chics) At our core we are a simple faction guild that will be getting together to roam as often as possible, and honing our PvP skills amongst ourselves when there are no fights to be had! During our spare time, we will be protecting the fine folks of UOR from the dastardly deeds of the everyday common griefer. We are PvPers, and not PK's. But that doesn't mean we will not kill your blue if you are caught engaging in griefing activity! Now that I have your attention, let me get down to the root and pearl of the situation.. -This guild will be aligned with the True Brits or Minax faction (currently undecided.) It only makes sense because we are a newb friendly and all around helpful chaotic good guild. -All Anti-Griefing stuff aside, this is not an RP guild. I am a seasoned player of pvp guilds, and the guys I currently have with me are as well. The Anti-Griefing thing is just something we want to do for a little fun when factions are dead. It gives me a reason to make funny macros. -All you need to join is the WILL to be a part of an organized fighting force. ALL SKILL LEVELS ACCEPTED! -PvE is something we will be engaging in as well, because, why not. -I need some help leading this, so if you are interested in a position of leadership, just let me know! Requirements for membership: -- First and foremost, the will and loyalty to succeed! For the first little while we will be the new kids on the block, membership will be small, and we will not win every fight. You need to be ok with that, and ready for the long haul. Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither was the AGA! << That rhymed. -- Access to Mumble/Vent, when pvping or doing group activities. -- Ability to organize yourself. I love this game but I don't play 24/7. Do not be afraid to form agrps yourself, don't wait for others. -- NO RAGING!!!! Shit's annoying. -- NO BOARD WARRIORS ALLOWED! One of the biggest problems on this server is the hostility between competing groups. We will not be partaking in such things. We will be the bigger person and let everyone else talk as much shit about us as they want, but we will not be dragged into it. Again, we are here for fun. Plus everyone might might fun of us if we suck. lololol I told myself no matter what.. I would not start a guild here because of the level of commitment it takes on time if it gets too big.. But this server needs more PvP guilds to enhance the community. And I am in need of more fielding fun. If you are looking for a casual yet competitive guild of like-minded folk who just want to enjoy the combat of Ultima Online while striving to be #1, you have found it. Please send me a PM or post here if interested in joining up! -Numba'Wun Stunna
Hi. First, I am not interested in joining. Not because of the guild, I just don't enjoy pvp. I do wish you good luck with your guild. It's always nice seeing players doing things which other players can become involved. One suggestion. You might be discouraging some players from joining, for the simple fact of your "must" on using audio chat. We have players from all over the world and of different circumstance. Some just don't have the band width. or as I, just cannot use audio. As said, just suggestion. thank you for this thread, and starting a guild. Marjo Governess of Wispfelt Westra on IRC
Hello newme, Thank you for the feedback, I edited the OP to be a little more clear. Voice while fielding pvp grps is a must have imo, and that is what I was referring too.
For anyone and everyone that is interested and have been inquiring about joining this wonderful association of like minded asskickers, there will be a more in depth Guild Rules post on our guild forum (UOR subforum) in the coming days. When that is complete I will link it on this thread, and openly recruit from IRC on occasion as well. If you read through the rules and feel like you would be a good fit, please contact me directly and we will talk!
If you can prevent some in-game behavior using PVP, it wasn't griefing to begin with. Griefing isn't PKing or Stealing.
You cannot truly *prevent* any type of behavior, let alone with PvP. But you can make people think twice before engaging in it. It is the difference between having consequences, and having none. But you can kill assholes. Which is good enough for me. It's a gimmick, don't overthink it.
Ok Mr. Dragon, I'll bite, because I see things much differently.. Bear in mind the term 'griefing' as defined by gamers does not have a direct definition. It is ambiguous by its nature. On the other hand, the term 'Grief' is defined clearly as Trouble or Annoyance. Therefore it could be said that anything causing a player trouble, or annoyance, is the act of causing grief..or.. Griefing. Pking and Stealing are both acts that cause players trouble or annoy them, so they can both be considered Griefing. "If you can prevent some in-game behavior using PVP, it wasn't griefing to begin with" The way I see it, if a provo is farming and is unable to get good loots per hour because a PK group keeps coming through and causing him trouble, annoyance, or grief... and then I come in and kill them all, I put an end to his grief. Has this provo's grief not ended solely due to my acts as a PvPer? Yes. I didn't PREVENT the behavior, since I can't see into the future, but I did give these PK's consequences for their actions, and very well may have prevented further acts. "PVP would hardly discourage a true griefer. I would think it a reward in fact" Ok, in some instances I would agree with you here. But this definitely does not apply in all cases, or even the majority. This philosophy is similar to 'don't feed the trolls.' But as a blanket statement, this would only apply if indeed killing or stealing wasn't griefing, but I have already discussed that. Just because a game allows certain actions, does not make them any less troubling or annoying. Obviously PvP puts an end to PK's and thieves, and is hardly rewarding for them to die. In other instances, if some guy was surrounding your house steps with a bunch of bulls with names like 'EatShitNdie" and you killed him.. that would just fuel his fire and you most likely would see twice the number of bulls the next day, so you could be right in those situations, but I still do not see a reward for him? If someone is house killing you, and you kill him.. you get the satisfaction of his death, yet he reaps no reward.. Remember guys and gals... this isn't an RP guild, the whole 'Anti-Griefer' thing is just a gimmick created for our enjoyment. I want to give people that are having troubles with 'bad' guys an option to call the 'good' guys to come help them out. Which also helps us find action! I want a guild that random UOR citizens can call-in for whatever reason. It is just for fun and nothing else. Every guild has a gimmick, this is ours. I thought it better than some nerdy name like "Bringers of Justice" or some such lol. And so far, it has been a success because my roster is growing quite nicely with great people and players. For those interested, we will be fielding next week. Also remember this is a post announcing my guild to the world. If anyone has a question that directly relates to my guild I will be happy to answer it, but any trolling will be ignored and reported.
Oh I like what you are doing. I think any time people rally around some cause it brings out the best in what UO is supposed to be. That being said, I will address your post. I don't think so. Stealing is CLEARLY a mechanic put into the game with the intended purpose of stealing from other players. It's a viable skill in the PVP aspect of the game. I don't think PVP is griefing (even if it's PKing), and I don't think stealing is either. If one party gains something from performing an action on another party, then I don't see it as griefing. Sometimes that action might even have a benefit that is not immediately apparent. For example, you see me reskilling Moboliin at some location, but in actuality I may have something to gain because he might be trying to res and do something bad to me. House killing someone is another prime example (although I don't think it's really done on UOR anymore). If I house kill you, with the intent to extort money from you for me to stop, it's not really griefing in my book. I have something to gain, even if it's not immediately apparent. Now, what is griefing? I would call it an action on another player where the initiator has NO benefit. An example of this would be house killing and NOT extorting you for money. It does NOT have to be a physical altercation either. if I follow you around spouting profanities in an attempt to aggrivate you, and I have nothing to gain from it other than you enjoying your gameplay less, that is griefing. In your provocationer example, that is simply a PK playing his game, and a farmer trying to deal with the PVP component (which adds to the fun of the game by implementing risk vs reward) actions of the PK. No griefing going on here. In a similar "farmer" type situation, if I were stealthing you while you farm and looting your kills, that is NOT grief. I am doing it for a purpose and enjoying the game. It's another PVP aspect (yes PVP doesn't always mean weapons skills and magery or pets) of the game. But, if I simply lured ALL the blood elementals onto a boat and sailed them to a spot and blocked it with other boats. A situation where I gain NOTHING (in fact I expended effort, which is an integral part of the griefing process), then I would be griefing the farmers at blood elementals. That being said, can you prevent this? Not really. If I am really griefing you, and you show up to PK me, I will be prepared to fight you. If not, I will simply leave, wait you out, and come back once you leave. You can't possible camp the same spot all day to "prevent grief" (I guess you could). Many other forms of grief involve players with nothing to love. Bank thieves that carry no loot (losers), or newbie-robe people following you around talking about the sexual expoits of your sister... Killing these guys accomplishes what?... nothing. They will re-res and be back. Often giving you a count in the process. If they have loot, and you engage in PVP with them, and they stay to fight, well, you're just making my day more interesting at that point. This is exactly the kind of response I am looking for. If someone is REALLY griefing you, your only recourse is to ignore them and leave. This applies to newbie-robe bank thief losers as well as people following you around just to flood your journal with racial profanities (A^T guild for example). Killing "EAtShiTNDie" bull guy is only going to provoke him ensuring you are griefed even more. Good. If you have something you want to do in game, I say go for it. But don't think by killing some PK's, thieves, or even "EatShitNDie" bull tamers with no loot is going to accomplish some anti-grief agenda. Your guild has a noble cause. I too like to hunt reds, you can read about it in the "Adventure" link on my signature. I can respect anyone who creates a purpose for themselves in the game. But I think the problem here stems specifically on our two different definitions of grief and nothing more. But at least now you understand my thoughts when making my previous comments.
Thank you for your more detailed explanation Snapdragon, and I too agree we simply have different definitions of grief. I do understand your thoughts now, and although I personally disagree, I can respect your opinion and I am sure many people would agree.
