First impression of champ spawns on the shard

Worked Barracoon/Vermin Horde spawn today at Ice West. I'd like to share the experience and thoughts about it. 3 players total, two were tamers with pets, one just a mage. All coordinated and experienced with champion spawns.

It was much more difficult and time consuming to complete the champ than it was in AoS. I think overall it took 3.5 hours when I was expecting something more like 1hour. The altar started at 0 skulls, which never happened in AoS (it started with 2-4 back then). It also seemed to take more work/time to move up. This could be partially because during AoS you could cast EV's and such more effectively/often. All of us had to leave to resupply at some point. For instance, as I recall, on OSI, the last tier was pretty quick. You only needed to kill a handful of mobs to advance it, like 3-5. This was not remotely the case on this spawn. I would guess upwards of 40-50 kills were needed to advance a red skull on the last tier.

Ratman Archers seem to do no damage, 1 damage, or miss the majority of time. Baracoon himself is the same way. I think he may have melee'd as you'd expect, but his ranged attack was not good.

Total platinum received between all players was 11, which felt incredibly low for the time, effort, and resources invested. I don't think it would be worth doing again, unfortunately. It's a shame because I have been excited for this for some time. Other loot included a lot of gems on the ground, which is mostly clutter. Gold, I'm not exactly sure how much, but I'm going to say 20k. This would feel appropriate if it wasn't so difficult. I'm pretty sure on OSI it was about 100k. Regs also dropped and they were nice to see. Stacks of 50 or so randomly on the ground, I thought that was a nice touch.

One of the things I was afraid of was that tons of people would show up at the end to beat on the champion we worked three hours for. Fortunately I think Hatecrime was organizing a champ in deceit at the time and that probably helped reduce that risk. Unfortunately at the end, when Baracoon appeared some douchenozzle appeared and started energy bolting him, I was really disappointed to see this guy show up. We had to kill him tons of times between his two characters he had on the island that were just ressing at healers that were standing in the spawn and using a scavenger agent to try to pick up the loot. (Thank god those murder count changes went in today to prevent us from taking too many counts).

I'm pretty disappointed about how much work it took to do the spawn and I think the harder spawns would be just plain out of the question, if they weren't a shardwide effort or maybe some big dungeon crawl by A^T). And the former situation would probably not be very enjoyable since you'd have thieves and plenty of people that just wait for the champ and beat on it.

I wanted to take some more pictures, but at the end of the day I was too busy killing this guy's characters to keep him off our loot/champ.



Overall I think the amount of spawn needed to kill to advance the spawn should be much less, maybe half as much or even less. Additionally, platinum reward was very low. I believe the patch notes say that top 6 attackers will receive platinum. Would 3 people get the same amount of platinum as 6? If not does that mean we'd have to ferry in alternate characters to beat on the champ just to get the total possible platinum? I hope not. Even so, the 25 platinum we might get in that scenario seems pretty abysmal. Maybe if it was 45 minutes of work instead of 3.5 hours I wouldn't feel like the reward was so low. I think if it required less time overall it would also alleviate, to some degree, the issue with people showing up at the end to beat on your champ. The window for them to discover you would be reduced.

Anyways, that's my first impression, thanks for reading, sorry it wasn't more positive overall.

I haven't had a chance to dabble and have only caught this thread on my way out the door to karaoke. It sounds like it was a tough fight for relatively mediocre reward. I think with a fair amount of people, you could wrap it up in an hour from what you've described. I would like to say though, that I think the platinum drop is fair because it should be sparse, not abundant.
Perhaps just upping the other loot totals would suffice but I would not like to see a system where three people could generate over 20 platinum in an hour span.

Granted this is coming from no experience on the difficulty and just a desire to see platinum remain challenging and very time consuming to get. Lest we all be riding ethereals with blessed runebooks and carpeted castles by the shard's first anniversary.

Can't wait to check it out and thanks for all the effort in the writeup. This kind of feedback is what the staff are thriving on to get things down the right road here.


Hail UO:R!

One thing that I don't think mes mentioned is that while the patch notes said that the six highest damagers on the champion get rewards, four people attacked our champion and only two received plat.
The bottom two didn't hit him that much, so there may be some minimum threshold that they didn't hit, but if there's no threshold there then it probably isn't working as intended.

I also think it was really a ton of work for the payout. I could see myself gathering enough play for a blessed runebook deed, but I think getting enough for an ethereal may be a little too hardcore for me.

I really enjoyed these events. Since they are static I feel its a fair scenario to have them be tougher and require teamwork/organization to knock out in a timely manor. The platinum payout needs to remain how it is now, or as Blaise said, we will all be riding ethy's in no time. I wouldn't mind seeing the gold dropped increase, as you can definitely make more gold with little effort elsewhere. Since most people won't realistically earn platinum every time out, the gold needs to make up for their time.

Overall, great work staff and I know you are already watching everything taking place and considering all of it. I'm confident that any changes that need to take place will happen over time as people figure out the different champ spawns.

I also wouldn't mind seeing the bosses be more difficult.

I fought in what I think was the first champ spawn on the server (Deceit) and I had a blast. I didn't take a head count but there were a lot of players there and I think that helped cut the overall time down for us. It only took about two hours to summon the champion there.

This was the biggest concerted effort I've ever seen in UO and I loved it. So many players helping each other, or at the very least not bothering each other, to work towards a common goal - nice to see that at least once a decade or so. To outline my thoughts about the champ -

I think a main reason everyone got along so well was that the spawn was so tough. Mes said he was worried about less-than-honorable actions from other players - decreasing the intensity of the spawn would only increase griefing. The very fact that ~10-15 players were required means that there's a very strong blue presence in a cramped area. Huge deterrent to PKs, corpse looters, and such. Even more so after everyone's been helping each other out for the past hour. The fact that anyone there could die to the spawn in under ten seconds if they don't stay sharp keeps people in line. They're trying to save their own hides, maybe heal/cure/res others, and get occassional loot. Doesn't leave much time or free space for backstabbing.

I don't think champs should just be a token spawn to make you feel like you're really doing something. I thought it was going to be an epic battle and I wasn't disappointed. It was the biggest monster bash I've ever taken part in that was realistically survivable (not like suicide events on other servers). I guess that players who don't care for PvM won't enjoy it as much, but that's not a flaw in the system. I agree with the opinion that platinum shouldn't be given away by the truckload and with HateCrime's feeling that the final gold drop could be boosted to make it more worthwhile for all involved.

Huge thanks to staff for implementing this. I felt like the sleep lost on a work night was a fair trade for the fun. And this is all coming from someone who didn't get a single platinum piece out of the deal (nor any gold from ten rotting corpses!).

Overall I can see that my opinion is just not shared about the champs and that's fine. I pretty much expected it from Blaise atleast, and I just wanted to give as fair an assessment as I could because I was so disappointed. I don't have any intention of doing the spawns again, I mean I'd have to do a hundred or more to save up for an ethereal, and I just don't hate myself enough to do that.

Zagyg I know what you mean but you're wrong about how a player killer views and interacts with a situation like that. It's actually the best scenario for a pk. It's a situation where there's lots of blues who are tapped out on resources (like mana and health, I mean) and have worked really hard on something. It's the easiest scenario to kill someone and loot them too. People spread out, they work different areas, you roll up and kill them one at a time. I really ought to know, I accumulated thousands of murder counts during AoS and obliterated the biggest guild in the game (that'd be Spawners Inc. on Baja) with my pk guild .

But what's really worse than pk's is guys that just show up on blues after you work the champ spawn just to take the reward. And in spawns that take a lot of people and a lot of time that's what you're going to have.

I think overall I had a different idea of what the spawns were going to be. It sounds like the status quo was looking for something that was only done occasionally and was more along the lines of the weekly or holiday events. I was hoping for something that I could log on and do with my friends on a more or less daily basis.

In any case it is what it is and that's fine.

The champion spawns & other recent systems (like the platinum system for example) will be under full review for quite some time. This is not something that we could have realistically nailed in the initial development without there being any flaws or discrepancies involved. From a development standpoint for systems as large as this, we have to assume that things will not go as planned and that there will always be exploits we were unaware of, and this is mostly why the mechanics involved with the method of platinum distribution are the way they are, as well as why the amounts being awarded are as low as they are. It is better to start too low, instead of starting too high and then either everyone has taken advantage of this & now has a bank full of platinum or having to disable the system completely & delay it even longer.

I really don't want to speak officially towards what will or will not be changed from the current mechanics involved, as I feel that it is very early in the deployment of patch 35 to truly make any decisions & assessments just yet. However we are watching very carefully how the systems play out & for any aspects of these systems which do not meet their expected results. Corrections will be made to functions that don't meet our goals.

The mechanics involved with the deployment of patch 35 are not set in stone, this is merely our initial deployment with the mechanics we felt we're appropriate to the goals in mind. However I do appreciate the feedback, and some of the things you've mentioned I do agree with, and some of them have been added to our list of known issues with patch 35 as well. There is a small list in a post by Chris in patch 35 which is listing these issues, down at the bottom.

Mes, I hope you didn't take my reply as an affront to your opinion, even if you know I'm more likely to have formed the same opinion as Zagyg did. From what I've heard so far, PKs were either not there at all or not enough of an issue for anyone to mention it. It is what it is though and I'd guess for the daily party with your friends, the best payout would be Boss Mobs and L6 chests.

I never meant an insult and was, I thought, pretty clear about my appreciation for your feedback. I'm just not inclined to think this should be a 'let's hit this every day for 25p' kind of situation, with only 2-3 people. 2-3 people is Boss Monster group for a quick kill. I'm hoping for a 20-30 person party with payout accordingly. Even with a desire for some of the platinum rewards, I still don't care enough for platinum to be my focus for doing champion spawns.

You sound quite pessimistic and if you haven't heard it from other people, I will tell you right now that people have already voiced the exact same concerns as you, just in private. You're not alone and opinions and experiences have clearly varied quite a bit. Feedback is tantamount to successfully balancing and delivering champion spawns to the shard. Please continue to work them and help the admins make them as best they can be, instead of throwing your hands in the air, effectively saying 'this sucks' and disregarding it. You clearly have experience in the matter and the ability to communicate your opinions so please continue to do so for the betterment of all.

I'd appreciate it, even if I don't always agree with all of it.

Agreed 100%, although I'm guessing that craftier + more skilled players can cut down the # required for these in any event.

Mes, I agree that an organized effort by several PKs could be effective in hurting a champ spawn group. But individuals or groups of two? I don't think so. PKs recall to places like Arcitc OL because they expect to find helpless bards and slow-moving monsters that are already fighting each other. They're looking for victims, not fights.

25-30 is a bit high. I've never seen that many players grouped on this server.
Also, scarcity breeds conflict. Only six will get platinum. It also seems to be intended to reward the highest damage dealers, so they will likely all be tamers.
Some of you may be content to spawn for no platinum at the moment, but I wonder how you will feel about that in a few weeks or months?

I think if they were doable by a smaller group of people in a more reasonable amount of time, they would be a constant source of player activity and pvp.

The amount of highest damagers awarded is subject to change in the future, as are nearly every other features involved with these systems. In regards to tamers, the calculations which are used for this awarding method do not pool the damages from all of a players tames &/or summons. If a tamer has deployed 1 dragon, 1 white-wyrm, and 1 nightmare, his damage rank will be that of only the highest scoring pet, not all of them combined. Damages which come from the tamer himself also do not pool together, so this is not an issue for the system which grants platinum to the eligible candidates.

To cite an example of this, anybody who was here & remembers the valentines variation of the champion spawn event may remember that at least a third (maybe more) of the events completed were scored/ranked as highest damager by a melee class template, even in the scenario where multiple tamers were engaged towards the same champion with multiple pets in use.

For consistent highest damage over time I found archery to be quite suitable, at the Cupid Spawn and others.
In an honorable group, platinum could be divided amongst those who proved their mettle in vanquishing the beast. If that comradery is not present, one must weigh the risk versus the reward to determine whether it is in their best interests to continue.

I would certainly prefer it go to the highest damager in lieu of corpse drop. Not only does corpse drop provide opportunity for assholes who did no work, to come up on yours, but people with client mods would make them the size of dinner plates and make that even easier.

This is currently listed in a post within patch 35, however I will post it here as well since it is directly relevant to the contents of this thread.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1589&start=20

I fought in the Neira spawn on the first day and in the Semidar spawn yesterday and I have a couple of opinions based on those outings. I still hear people saying that the spawn is too overwhelming but after two champ spawns now I'm still convinced that it's a good thing. I believe there's a direct correlation/ratio between the strength and quantity of the spawn and the amount of griefing at these things. At the moment it's limited to pretty minor annoyances.

Also, and this is just my opinion/observation, the tons of magic-casting mobs that spawn at all the champion altars might be a big factor in player deaths, usable templates, and spawn difficulty. Under any circumstances hordes of demons and succubi would make things very difficult for players, but my point here is that the champ system was originally implemented in a world where Magic Reflection had only a 10 second cooldown and reflect/invis items existed. Under current MR rules, it's easy to end up slain in retreat or effectively out of the picture for >1 minute. Maybe I'm completely off-base. Even if iI'm not, I have no answers. Just sharing my two cents.

Looks like I will be keeping my alt near by for rez heals lol

Hey Zagyg

Just want to clarify about magic reflect to say it worked the same as it does now when champs were implemented. They were easier under the ruleset of the time, however. For one thing they dropped skill scrolls and the maximum for a stat was 125. So casters with 125 int, 110+ med, and 110+ magery could keep a lot more energy vortexes out. Also, tamers bonded all their pets back then and were less afraid of losing them. And AoS came out shortly after that, which made them considerably easier with LRC and LMC and such. So you're not wrong in the point you're driving at.

But I want to add that the two spawns you attended were the two that had the most players at them. Those were both pretty much shardwide efforts. I didn't see the undead one, but it was advertised in IRC and I suspect it had 10+ players. I would say the fire dungeon had in the 20 range. It still took like three hours, however. How many players are required for the spawns isn't really for me to say. I think its obviously up to the admins and the majority of the players. But I think if they were/had been left like they were, then only a few spawns would get worked a week.

In my mind it would be better if the standard spawns were pretty doable by small groups of players (like 3-5). Sure they'd be easier with more, but still doable by small groups. Then the harrower himself might fall under a shardwide effort category. For me this would give my group of friends or myself and other groups of players online at off or peak hours an opportunity to casually tackle something together. It's a great system for encouraging group play and social interaction in game. Again, that's just my personal vision of what seems best to me, and I recognize that most of you have disagreed with or may disagree with that.

And as far as the changes that have or will be implemented, they sound great so far, and really address a lot of the concerns I was having. Hopefully I'll get an opportunity later in the week to get some people together and start another spawn.

Nice post Mes.

I don't think tamers are much worried about losing pets at these champ spawns currently. I'm over knocking tamers anymore but plain truth is I haven't seen anyone's wyrms in danger of dying yet, bonded or not. I've even seen people just park and leave their WW to kill monsters while they head out to do God-knows-what.

About the magic reflect, not only did reflect items exist at the time (with a 60 second cooldown between uses), but the cooldown on recasting MR really was 10 seconds. It was discussed in this thread a long time ago - viewtopic.php?f=6&t=417&p=1226#p1226 . Despite what Ezekiel said there, they decided to go with a 60 second cooldown on recasts, and there are no magic reflect items here. This archive link will work better than the one in that thread (goes to the same page) - http://web.archive.org/web/200212050018 ... n_196.html. It wasn't until Publish 69 in 2010 that the Magic Reflect cooldown timer was bumped up to 30 seconds, which is what it still is today on live servers.

Well, I can't and won't offer any actual proof to refute that point about reflect. I can just say that from my memory, I believe during UO:R the actual casting of reflect came with a cooldown much like the one on this shard. In AoS it had no cooldown whatsoever, as it no longer actually reflected spells at all. Instead, it added to all of your elemental resistances at the expense of your physical resistance. I think it may be accurate that magic reflect items specifically had little or no cooldown, although these items were taken out of the loot tables and only existed in a prepatch/grandathered/semi-rare way, atleast during AoS.

I've been meaning to add these images from that spawn, too, since you mentioned white wyrms, I remembered I had them. Semidar is in the last picture, she's the one making out with Peace.

My wyrms survived! GOGO GADGET MOONGATE!